231 Engine replacement options

[231LV]

Though this is a close topic to the other one discussing 231 engine upgrades, I didn't want to hijack the owners thread so I'm starting this and hoping for some thoughts...

I have a TSIO-360-GB (maybe the last GB'd 231 in the fleet!). It is approaching 1800 hours. In the past 9 years I have owned the plane, I have run the engine LOP and kept the cht's below 380. The previous owner did the same. The results have been an engine that has not required a mid-time top overhaul and only a single jug replaced. I burn about 1 qt of oil every 9 hours and all compressions (currently in for annual) are good. Although I don't plan to replace the engine until it really "hiccups", I'm starting to think about options...

option 1....I had considered a Rocket upgrade but that is not longer offered and nobody else does anything close to the Mooney Rocket or Missile

option 2...get a reman LB and call it a day

option 3...wait to see if the newer diesels coming on the market might work and somebody grabs a type certificate for an install...this is the only option that really solves the leaded gas issue

If I'm missing something, I would sure appreciate opinions from others who have faced this and have the wisdom to pass on...

[aviatoreb]

Though this is a close topic to the other one discussing 231 engine upgrades, I didn't want to hijack the owners thread so I'm starting this and hoping for some thoughts...

I have a TSIO-360-GB (maybe the last GB'd 231 in the fleet!). It is approaching 1800 hours. In the past 9 years I have owned the plane, I have run the engine LOP and kept the cht's below 380. The previous owner did the same. The results have been an engine that has not required a mid-time top overhaul and only a single jug replaced. I burn about 1 qt of oil every 9 hours and all compressions (currently in for annual) are good. Although I don't plan to replace the engine until it really "hiccups", I'm starting to think about options...

option 1....I had considered a Rocket upgrade but that is not longer offered and nobody else does anything close to the Mooney Rocket or Missile

option 2...get a reman LB and call it a day

option 3...wait to see if the newer diesels coming on the market might work and somebody grabs a type certificate for an install...this is the only option that really solves the leaded gas issue

If I'm missing something, I would sure appreciate opinions from others who have faced this and have the wisdom to pass on...

None of us have a crystal ball - but I would guess from the rumblings both in the general market and from noises coming out of the Mooney factory that eventually there will be a turbo diesel option for M20K. how soon? Soon enough for your needs? I would guess 5 years at least. How do I get that number? I just made a number up out of my head that sounds like longer than pretty soon but not too long to sound like never. So - my guess is that you will need some kind of next TSIO360 before a turbo diesel will be available. But why not wait as long as you can?

Erik

[KSMooniac]

I think #2 is the only option you have for the foreseeable future, unfortunately. I would just keep on flying and be prepared for the -LB purchase/exchange when it is time.

[kortopates]

I think its awesome a turbo owner has managed to get 1800 hrs without topping; especially on a GB! That proves good sound operation and is very commendable.

As for Diesel options there isn't even anything in the foreseable future that even a potential contender for us. Look at Lycoming's offereing that coming out on C182. It can't even maintain 70% power above 17K - that's a major step down from stock 231 with a critical altitude slightly above 17K. Continental is in theory developing higher HP diesels that are more likely a contender for our birds - but who knows when and if.

[bd32322]

Just to put some times down, the latest jetA engine for the cessna was supposed to be ready from Renault/SMA in 1998. Instead it arrived in 2012 due to various reasons (technical and otherwise). Engine development seems to happen at a glacial pace.

Although since there is 1 flying now, the others from continental may be quick to come?

[1964-M20E]

I used to fly an older NA bird but in 10 senetneces or less what is the differeince between a -GB and -LB?

[jetdriven]

Effectively only option #2 is available. I read somewhere the 182 diesel conversion costs 70K or more. Given the size of the Mooney fleet I cant ever imagine it being an option.

I have seen the SMA diesel and it is massive. That firewall forward conversion fills the entire cowling of a 182 up. For all the simplicity of the Continental engines, this thing looks like a nuclear reactor.

[231LV]

I used to fly an older NA bird but in 10 senetneces or less what is the differeince between a -GB and -LB?

thanks all for the thoughts...I'm hoping for the turbo diesel solution to raise it's head but given the current state of Mooney, I really can't fathom how the Mooney fleet will transition when lead is phased out...

The GB runs hotter than the LB due primarily to a poor induction design; the throttle body design on the GB is smaller than the LB. The LB engine opens up the throttle body allowing more air into the cylinders and viola!....lower temps across the board

[fantom]

LB = less bad.

Given the amount of flying you do, and the distant horizon for a diesel as well as a lot of open questions about it not the least of which is cost, I'd go for an LB at the first sign of trouble, and enjoy it as long as possible.

[231LV]

This thread was started last September....my most recent oil analysis just came in and I have higher than normal aluminium and iron wear...I guess that I will be exploring the LB option and start looking into the process...

[RJBrown]

There no longer is a GB option. When rebuilt properly it becomes a LB. currently that is your only choice. I don't think the 262 is being done currently. Rocket is only doing turbine conversions. The only choices are who to get a LB from.

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

If your going from a GB to LB you have to go with a factory reman for the update. TCM factory is the only game in town as far as that upgrade goes. I too have a GB getting up there in time and operate same as the OP. no mid time top needed thus far and all compressions in the mid 70's. +1 for turbo LoP operations

[Greg@williamslawoffice.us]

Bob Meier at Mooney Mod Squad at Sarasota (SRQ) holds the STC for the 262 conversion. Not associated with MooneyMart/Coy Jacob.

[goncaloareia]

Hi

I have a TSIO-360-MB1 from my 252 with not more than 5 hours since factory new, and in storage since 2002 (documented storage with long-term storage procedures). Its a long story that I can tell you later.

It's for sale for not much more than a worn-out similar engine. With a quick overhaul or just a check at an engine shop you can get your 262 project working for a decent number.

PM your email me in case you're interested.

Kind regards.

Goncalo

[jlunseth]

You would have to check the Mooney website on a 262 upgrade, it is only available for the 231 after a certain serial number. It may not be on the Mooney site any longer, you may need to check the current STC holder (Mod Squad?). As I understand it, it also involves some other changes such as gear. In any event, it is not available for all 231's.