Jackk Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 30 minutes ago, toto said: A lot of auto parts stores will rent specialty tools for very little money - some will even take a deposit and refund the full amount on return. Indeed! That’s a good point to make as well for when stuff happens in the wild
PT20J Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 4 hours ago, Echo said: Multi million dollar airframes (like 50 flying in U.S.?) with multi millionaire owners flying and servicing. NOT the vintage Mooney owner model. You kinda missed the point. If it will work for such a small fleet, it will work for a larger fleet. The cost is irrelevant. Parts will cost whatever it takes to make the parts business successful. There will always be competition from used parts to keep a check on prices, but new will always be more expensive. 3 1
Echo Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 8 minutes ago, PT20J said: You kinda missed the point. If it will work for such a small fleet, it will work for a larger fleet. The cost is irrelevant. Parts will cost whatever it takes to make the parts business successful. There will always be competition from used parts to keep a check on prices, but new will always be more expensive. Really? I think not brother.
Echo Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 2 hours ago, Jackk said: What was the tube on? It’s a aircraft forum, think about it for a minute lol I don’t really have any respect for Walmart, so yes, seriously Im not going to lie about it, return them say I don’t need them anymore, obvious they have been lightly used, and it’s on Walmart if they want to take them back, since they don’t pay their workers enough to care, 99% of the time they just process the return, if they don’t care, why should anyone else? Depends on the size WTF r U talking about? Dude. Really? 1
Echo Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 2 hours ago, Marc_B said: Perfect example...Precise Flight speed brakes. The return springs can be purchased from Century Spring for $12 each with a minimum order of 1000 springs. Or you can send in your speed brakes to Precise Flight for service for $1000 each. How many things on our Mooney's were sourced from outside vendors and have a significant minimum order to even produce one complete item. How many "minimum orders" would be enough stock for the next 3-5 years or more (i.e. sell two items and have 100 on the shelf for 5 years)?? The money isn't made on the inventory, but rather the sales. You need more owners purchasing, more aircraft produced and sold, and more parts sold. Not sure how this is a CB vs showroom issue, other than the CB upset that shrinking demand leads to massively inflated pricing. Even Skunk Works at Lockheed would see this with the development of aircraft that were multi-million dollar projects that needed small volume pieces produced by outside vendors. It's a HUGE efficiency cost to interrupt the factory for small volume runs that can't be widely used outside of the small market they are produced for. F your pricing. Full stop . 1
Echo Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 There are a lot of people who are the problem here. Full stop. 1
Jackk Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 1 hour ago, Echo said: WTF r U talking about? Dude. Really? I’m using small words, what part are you having trouble with? And yes really
Echo Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 Lol. Mooney is on the table flatlining. The future of GA is on the table next to Mooney. Meanwhile Mooneyspace talks about avionics upgrades and Mooney viability doing refresh at Kerrville. Whatever. Just a bunch of white noise by “rich kids.” Good for you. Gonna work out great. 1
DCarlton Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 7 hours ago, Echo said: You looking for a completely reconditioned Mooney or are you, like me, looking for parts that are on the shelf and available to purchase with a price clearly communicated. NOT a hey get 50 other owners send in your part and we will get you a part in six, 12, 18 months for (insert $)… I'm suggesting there may be a market for both, and an operation could possibly achieve critical mass if they had it all under one roof. If reliable long term support was available for Mooneys, there might be a market for folks that want a turnkey completely refurbished airplane. Mooneys are still great airplanes even when compared to more modern alternatives. 2
Jackk Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Echo said: Lol. Mooney is on the table flatlining. The future of GA is on the table next to Mooney. Meanwhile Mooneyspace talks about avionics upgrades and Mooney viability doing refresh at Kerrville. Whatever. Just a bunch of white noise by “rich kids.” Good for you. Gonna work out great. Sorry you have had such bad experiences I’ve had all sorts of planes, some much more fringe than a Mooney, never had an issue getting a part I needed. For me out in the country my GA expenses very manageable, especially my smaller engine plane that can burn non ethanol auto fuel. I’m comfy but don’t consider myself “rich”, lots of guys up here who make less than I have their own planes, but we all can change our own oil, a tire, do owner assisted, and can sniff out salesman BS pretty good. If you have soft hands and live in one of those urban centers, I could see how GA could be a “rich person” activity I’d think this would be as clear to see as a color vision plate no? Edited January 11 by Jackk
Jackk Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 12 minutes ago, DCarlton said: I'm suggesting there may be a market for both, and an operation could possibly achieve critical mass if they had it all under one roof. If reliable long term support was available for Mooneys, there might be a market for folks that want a turnkey completely refurbished airplane. Mooneys are still great airplanes even when compared to more modern alternatives. Fletch Air and the grummans comes to mind too
SilentT Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 50 minutes ago, Jackk said: I'd think this would be as clear to see as a color vision plate no? I'm offended by this statement 1
Echo Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 2 hours ago, DCarlton said: I'm suggesting there may be a market for both, and an operation could possibly achieve critical mass if they had it all under one roof. If reliable long term support was available for Mooneys, there might be a market for folks that want a turnkey completely refurbished airplane. Mooneys are still great airplanes even when compared to more modern alternatives. I think not, but would love to be wrong.
Echo Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 1 hour ago, SilentT said: I'm offended by this statement I am not.
Echo Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 2 hours ago, Jackk said: Sorry you have had such bad experiences I’ve had all sorts of planes, some much more fringe than a Mooney, never had an issue getting a part I needed. For me out in the country my GA expenses very manageable, especially my smaller engine plane that can burn non ethanol auto fuel. I’m comfy but don’t consider myself “rich”, lots of guys up here who make less than I have their own planes, but we all can change our own oil, a tire, do owner assisted, and can sniff out salesman BS pretty good. If you have soft hands and live in one of those urban centers, I could see how GA could be a “rich person” activity I’d think this would be as clear to see as a color vision plate no? Buddy your read on me is off. Way da fuke off…
Echo Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 2 hours ago, Jackk said: Sorry you have had such bad experiences I’ve had all sorts of planes, some much more fringe than a Mooney, never had an issue getting a part I needed. For me out in the country my GA expenses very manageable, especially my smaller engine plane that can burn non ethanol auto fuel. I’m comfy but don’t consider myself “rich”, lots of guys up here who make less than I have their own planes, but we all can change our own oil, a tire, do owner assisted, and can sniff out salesman BS pretty good. If you have soft hands and live in one of those urban centers, I could see how GA could be a “rich person” activity I’d think this would be as clear to see as a color vision plate no? Let’s arm wrestle and do situps…. 1
Echo Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 Jacky, I passed color vision tests for years so you think you are clever, but really just pedantic. Regardless, would love to compare d size sometime as that seems super important to you. I have two kids and four grandkids and I will take that over all you rate as important. Vacationing on an island right now. Enjoyed a cigar and a jack (duty free) today because I am a CB. 1
Yetti Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 9 hours ago, Jackk said: Well he called a mechanic and paid like $400 or so to get it fixed… I’m thinking hmm, $60 tube, worse case buy and return some basic tools from Wally World or autozone, 30min or so of my time, done. I look for reasons to buy tools. Most recently a skid steer. You return tools. We are not the same. :-) 1
IvanP Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 22 minutes ago, Yetti said: I look for reasons to buy tools. Yes! Man can never have too many tools. Just don't ask my wife what she thinks of this approach . 1
Jackk Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 58 minutes ago, Yetti said: I look for reasons to buy tools. Most recently a skid steer. You return tools. We are not the same. :-) This isn’t about buying tools, I already have everything I need to effect the repair, I just don’t carry jacks etc with me for every flight
SilentT Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 12 hours ago, Echo said: I am not. As a colorblinded person it was a joke, man getting that medical restriction removed was a pain in the ass 1
LANCECASPER Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 A person who buys tools to use and return is a thief. Whether someone respects the retailer or not is just a flimsy justification for theft. My older brother worked in loss prevention at Walmart for a few years, and back then on items less than $100, by the time they added in their administrative costs of paying employees to process the return, it was less expensive if someone stole the item from the store than bought it and returned it. Over 90% of returned items never hit the shelves again, they were wholesaled out or thrown away. There are valid reasons for returning something. Using the item for its intended purpose and then returning it is not one of them. The only reason Walmart tolerated it was that people came back every week to buy something else. Plus they just raised the prices for the honest people to cover all of the dishonest people. But to take pride and brag about buying something, using it and then returning it explains everything about character, or complete lack thereof. That isn't who we are on this forum. 17 1
Jackk Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 (edited) 1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said: A person who buys tools to use and return is a thief. Whether someone respects the retailer or not is just a flimsy justification for theft. My older brother worked in loss prevention at Walmart for a few years, and back then on items less than $100, by the time they added in their administrative costs of paying employees to process the return, it was less expensive if someone stole the item from the store than bought it and returned it. Over 90% of returned items never hit the shelves again, they were wholesaled out or thrown away. There are valid reasons for returning something. Using the item for its intended purpose and then returning it is not one of them. The only reason Walmart tolerated it was that people came back every week to buy something else. Plus they just raised the prices for the honest people to cover all of the dishonest people. But to take pride and brag about buying something, using it and then returning it explains everything about character, or complete lack thereof. That isn't who we are on this forum. Uhh no, that’s not “theft” lol If I tell the Wally worker I don’t need their cheap tools anymore and they are clear as day open and used, it’s on the worker what to do, 99.9% are not paid enough to give a crap and it’s easier to just process the return vs the back and forth they expect by refusing the return, if Wally World is too cheap to pay their employees enough to care don’t expect me to care about your blight of a business. Also Walmart isn’t jacking prices up due to you or me, that’s just low IQ marketing, like most other business they will simply charge what they think their market will bear. Also as someone who like most way over pays in taxes, seeing how Walmarts hiring and employment schemes rely on US tax payers via SNAP, Medicade, etc to subsidize their abysmal pay and abuse of “part time” status So I honestly think more people should do this to recoup some of our tax dollars https://dataspace.princeton.edu/handle/88435/dsp019s161887r Edited January 12 by Jackk
IvanP Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said: A person who buys tools to use and return is a thief. Whether someone respects the retailer or not is just a flimsy justification for theft. Absolutely. Use-and-return is a scam and it only causes prices to go up for everyone. If someone does not like a particular retailer, for whatever reason, they should just shop elsewhere, but not cause deliberate harm that will affect all consumers, not just the retailer. Sad to see that members of Mooney community would engage in such dishonest conduct. 6
LANCECASPER Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 4 hours ago, IvanP said: Absolutely. Use-and-return is a scam and it only causes prices to go up for everyone. If someone does not like a particular retailer, for whatever reason, they should just shop elsewhere, but not cause deliberate harm that will affect all consumers, not just the retailer. Sad to see that members of Mooney community would engage in such dishonest conduct. Thankfully he's not a member of the Mooney community - just a low life thief that enjoys stirring up controversy on on-line forums. Not that AI is always correct on technical items, but on something as simple as this it's usually right on. When googling "Is buying an item, using it and returning it ethical?" - here's what AI says: Buying an item, using it, and returning it is generally considered unethical if done with the intent to use it once (like "wardrobing" or using a ladder for a single task) because it's essentially free rental and can be costly for retailers, but it's acceptable if the item is genuinely defective, doesn't fit, or wasn't as described, as that's within reasonable return policy use. The ethics hinge on your intention and the retailer's policy, but abusing liberal policies to treat items as single-use rentals is seen as exploiting the system, which can raise prices for others and harm businesses. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6] When it's generally unethical (Intentional abuse) "Wardrobing": Buying an outfit for a single event, wearing it, and returning it. Single-use tasks: Purchasing a tool, using it once (e.g., a ladder), and returning it. Fraudulent returns: Returning items damaged by the consumer or returning used items as new. [4, 5, 6, 7] When it's generally acceptable (Legitimate reasons) Defective products: The item breaks or doesn't work as expected. Poor fit/appearance: Clothes don't fit or look right after trying them on at home (not wearing out). Changed mind: You genuinely decide you don't want or need it within the return period. Explicit business models: If a store promotes "try-it-at-home" models where returns are expected. [1, 3, 4, 7, 8] Why it's a moral issue It's like theft: Intentionally using an item and returning it for a full refund is seen as borrowing for free, which is a form of theft. Cost to businesses: Retailers incur costs from processing returns, which can lead to higher prices for all customers. Abuse of policy: Liberal return policies exist for customer satisfaction, but widespread abuse undermines the system for everyone. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8] AI responses may include mistakes. [1] https://www.quora.com/Is-it-ethical-to-return-something-to-a-store-after-you-have-used-it [2] https://www.facebook.com/LasVegasParentZone/posts/whats-your-thoughts-with-people-using-return-policies-for-when-items-are-just-us/1265986425159594/ [3] https://www.quora.com/Is-buying-something-using-it-for-a-few-days-and-then-returning-it-immoral [4] https://www.quora.com/Is-it-unethical-to-buy-clothing-electronics-with-the-intention-of-returning-it-later-1 [5] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0969698921003453 [6] https://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/family-finance/articles/what-is-viral-wardrobing-and-why-shouldnt-you-practice-it [7] https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1hv7ek/reddit_is_it_morally_okay_to_buy_something_from/ [8] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/25/magazine/return-policy-ethics.html - - - - - Since the person we’re referring to is amoral - he won't have the moral capacity to understand this and will continue to dispute it. 6
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