Rocket W&B: Help! Family of three or two possible?

[Pinecone]

On 9/25/2025 at 12:09 PM, donkaye, MCFI said:

You're talking apples and oranges.  There's no Encore upgrade for a Rocket.  The "Rocket" was the upgrade.

Check the post I was replying to.

"I have a 252, not a rocket, so maybe this isn’t helpful…"

[Pinecone]

On 9/25/2025 at 12:24 PM, Ragsf15e said:

I have that.  On the WB I posted, mgw is 3130.  Empty is 2046.  I also have Monroys.  I bet our airplanes are within a few lbs of each other.

About 20 pounds.

[Trogdor]

I do not have the original numbers. The original shop has been called to see if we can get them and if we re-do the math, does the CG make sense.

[Trogdor]

Just an observation: I would expect the arms to be the same between the Rocket and a stock 231/252 since the datum didn't move.

The CG is however 0.3 more forward and the Rocket is about 200 pounds more. If I do W&B with that in mind, I should have a round idea on where the CG should lie given my weight scenarios (and some Rocket's have had at least 50-100 pounds removed from avionic upgrades).

Put simply, after reviewing a lot of doc, I think @donkaye, MCFIsheet is correct. I think the plane in question's useful load/empty weight and CG are both wrong.

That's why so many Rocket owners have zero issue with two-three PAX and significant fuel without 120 pounds in the back. God, anyone see what a 177 is like? That's even worse and it can still put two adults in the front with fuel and a little weight in the back.

[Fly Boomer]

24 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

That's why so many Rocket owners have zero issue with two-three PAX and significant fuel without 120 pounds in the back. God, anyone see what a 177 is like? That's even worse and it can still put two adults in the front with fuel and a little weight in the back.

I once had a similar discussion with a Meridian pilot.  He said the "dirty little secret" among Meridian drivers is that every flight is over gross.  That would make me uncomfortable.

[Ragsf15e]

14 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

I once had a similar discussion with a Meridian pilot.  He said the "dirty little secret" among Meridian drivers is that every flight is over gross.  That would make me uncomfortable.

I fly one for work. I don’t fly it over gross.  However, I rarely fill past ~2/3 fuel and no more than 3 passengers and no overnight bags on ~300nm trips.  If you want full fuel, it’s only got about 550lbs left for people plus bags.

[Fly Boomer]

2 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

I fly one for work. I don’t fly it over gross.  However, I rarely fill past ~2/3 fuel and no more than 3 passengers and no overnight bags on ~300nm trips.  If you want full fuel, it’s only got about 550lbs left for people plus bags.

Well, you know how pilots exaggerate.  Although the airplane in question had a leather interior -- seats, headliner, glare shield, panel, side-walls, and the floor.  Not sure what that might weigh, but it could be quite a bit.  Maybe he meant "his dirty little secret"?

[Trogdor]

I thought this was only a 210 thing?

[LANCECASPER]

46 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Well, you know how pilots exaggerate.  Although the airplane in question had a leather interior -- seats, headliner, glare shield, panel, side-walls, and the floor.  Not sure what that might weigh, but it could be quite a bit.  Maybe he meant "his dirty little secret"?

The one I was partners in had pretty much all that except leather floors from the factory. At the altitudes that it flys at you definitely want the factory wool carpet with the insulation to keep it warm enough for the passengers.

I loved the pressurization but the range on the original Meridian (with gross weight increase) made it slower in many "from destination to destination" scenarios than what I have in my Acclaim, since the Meridian needed a fuel stop.

[Ragsf15e]

2 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

Well, you know how pilots exaggerate.  Although the airplane in question had a leather interior -- seats, headliner, glare shield, panel, side-walls, and the floor.  Not sure what that might weigh, but it could be quite a bit.  Maybe he meant "his dirty little secret"?

It is very easy to overload if you put in 4+ people and try to fly 800nm.  Baggage area is max 100lbs too.  It’s a very nice 4 seater, but yes, i bet a lot of people overload them, 500hp turbine on the front really makes it go.

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

The one I was partners in had pretty much all that except leather floors from the factory. At the altitudes that it flys at you definitely want the factory wool carpet with the insulation to keep it warm enough for the passengers.

I loved the pressurization but the range on the original Meridian (with gross weight increase) made it slower in many "from destination to destination" scenarios than what I have in my Acclaim, since the Meridian needed a fuel stop.

According to AIN Online, the first Meridian (2001) was severely limited when it rolled out of Vero Beach: 

"With full fuel, the typical Meridian could carry 350 pounds in the cockpit and cabin–sufficient for little more than a couple and their weekend bags."

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2007-10-08/vortex-generators-boost-meridians-useful-load

Apparently, they stuck on a bunch of vortex generators to help get the stall speed down, and open the door for gross weight increases.

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, Fly Boomer said:

According to AIN Online, the first Meridian (2001) was severely limited when it rolled out of Vero Beach: 

"With full fuel, the typical Meridian could carry 350 pounds in the cockpit and cabin–sufficient for little more than a couple and their weekend bags."

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2007-10-08/vortex-generators-boost-meridians-useful-load

Apparently, they stuck on a bunch of vortex generators to help get the stall speed down, and open the door for gross weight increases.

Read the entire article. From the article: "In addition to 96 vortex generators affixed to the upper surface of the wings and another 80 affixed to the underside of the horizontal stabilizers, the upgrade includes tougher gear attach points and some wing strengthening. The mods are not retrofittable to older Meridians, Piper having deemed them too complex for field installation."

From personal experience, the Gross Weight increase had to be done at the Piper factory in Vero Beach FL since the wing needed to be opened up, re-skinned and repainted and the entire landing gear had to be changed out. And, of course,  once all of that was done the VGs were installed.

In 2003 the price to have the Gross Weight increase was $80,000. The last I heard, if you wanted to have Piper do the GWI on an early Meridian (2001 to some of the 2002 models) it was now in the neighborhood of $150,000.