Cheyenne PPP, Inogen Rove 6, and 1st Class on the 787-9

[donkaye, MCFI]

The Mooney PPP was held in Cheyenne, Wyoming this past weekend.  I debated with myself about flying there Mooney style, but decided that, since I was instructing and had to be there at a specific time, going Commercial was the best choice.  At this stage in my life I'll only go Commercial 1st Class, and the trip out to Cheyenne was what I expected.  Traveling with the Inogen worked out well having called United to let them know I would be traveling with it.  TSA checked it out extensively both directions.  Although it's a carry on, the airlines don't count it in the carry on limitation so you essentially can have it as a third carry on item.

Since Cheyenne is at 6,100 feet, air work needs be done no less than 4,500 agl.  That means 10,500 msl.  I'm not teaching at that altitude without oxygen.  Anticipating a student with a Mooney with no oxygen and knowing that after 911 supplemental oxygen tanks aren't permitted on Commercial planes, I bought the Rove 6 last week.  Sure enough, I got a student with a C model.  It was the best equip C Model I have ever seen with dual G3X, G5, and GFC 500 with YD among other upgrades.  The unit performed so well with the two of us at the altitudes we worked that my student is going to buy one in lieu of a supplemental tank. 

The weather on Thursday and Friday was not good, but on our flying day, Saturday, it was CAVU with gusty winds to 30 knots.  Great day for crosswind landing practice, and we did a lot of them.

Our return trip was another thing and another reason to go Mooney all seats 1st Class when time permits.  Of course with Cheyenne being such a large city, there were many options for departure time--like maybe one?  The trip is 18 minutes long so what could possibly go wrong?  How about an 1½ hour delay with a 1½ hour connection time.  Plan B was necessary.  I called United support and they confirmed what I already knew; that I would miss the connection.  The poor woman tried unsuccessfully to find a reasonable connection to San Jose with the requirement of 1st Class.  I finally suggested SFO and an Uber credit, and after a long time on hold she found an SFO flight that would just extend our time by 2 hours.  She said she'd confirm by email, which she did but without the credit.  Desperation prevailed and eventually we were on our way to Denver.  Once there, I got another email indicating that the connecting flight would be late by an hour, then another hour.  However, while I couldn't imagine how an organization could be run to poorly, I looked forward to the 787 ride, since I had never been on one.

At last the plane came in and we began boarding.   I never saw such a poorly configured airplane in 1st Class.  The seats were so confining as to be considered claustrophobic.  The aisles were so narrow that my carry on carrier could not pass down the aisle. To talk to Shirley next to me I had to yell over to her.  She likes to hold my had on takeoff, but when I stretched my arm over the separator to do so my arm accidently touched an imbedded switch that raised the separator and broke the hand connection.  What usually in 1st Class is pretty good food turned out to be a box with potato chips, an oreo cookie, a beef jerky cylinder, and some gummies.  This wasn't even suitable for 3rd Class.  To summarize, there is no way I would want to go 1st Class on a 10 to 15 hour flight in this airplane and with such poor service,  United Airlines.  We arrived home 6½ hours late at 12:00 midnight having started the travel day at 12:00 noon in Cheyenne. 

Mooney, the only way to fly!

[201er]

16 minutes ago, donkaye, MCFI said:

What usually in 1st Class is pretty good food turned out to be a box with potato chips, an oreo cookie, a beef jerky cylinder, and some gummies.  This wasn't even suitable for 3rd Class.  To summarize, there is no way I would want to go 1st Class on a 10 to 15 hour flight in this airplane and with such poor service,  United Airlines.  We arrived home 6½ hours late at 12:00 midnight. 

Mooney, the only way to fly!

Well you can only imagine what the food selection is like in the back if that's what first class gets 

Mooney class service

[N201MKTurbo]

That’s why I have a Mooney. I still fly the airlines more than I like. What you describe is pretty normal.

[IvanP]

It is amazing what passes as 1st class on US domestic routes these days. In the Pan Am days, you got in economy what we are getting is 1st today, both in terms of space and service. On my recent trip to DC in April, there was only vegetarian option available - took one bite of what tasted like a soggy cardboard and asked the F/A to remove the tray. At least they had half decent wine and some other snacks on board. Definitely did not feel like 1st class, but that is all we get nowadays.   

[IvanP]

51 minutes ago, 201er said:

Well you can only imagine what the food selection is like in the back if that's what first class gets 

Mooney class service

Nice! "M-class" beats most airlines. Cathay Pacific used to serve similar dish (on porcelain plates with sake of proper temperature) on their LA-Hong Kong route before HK was ceded to China. Maybe they still do. Did not fly with them recently. 

[Fly Boomer]

2 minutes ago, IvanP said:

In the Pan Am days, you got in economy what we are getting is 1st today, both in terms of space and service.

I was thinking the same about TWA.  I never worried too much about domestic flights, but the food and service on international flights would rival any restaurant.  Sometimes I had to tell them I wasn't interested in the additional courses. 

[Marc_B]

@donkaye, MCFI sorry to miss you so close to my neck of the woods. Unfortunately dropped off for annual May 22. Hope the class was fun!

[Scooter]

Had to take Canada Air in the early 80’s and even in economy they gave you a menu with a choice for meals.

[Utah20Gflyer]

I have an Inogen G3 and really like it.  I almost always use it now for cross country flights.   Unless I had a turbocharged aircraft I don’t think I would ever choose a bottle over the oxygen concentrator.  

[Pinecone]

Worst of two worlds.  An international configured aircraft on a short domestic route.

The international aircraft assume that most people are traveling alone or with work colleagues, not close personal people.

And pretty much anything under 3 hours domestic, even in first you get the snack basket to choose from.

On the O2 side, I have an Imogen G5 that I use along with the built in O2 system.  I have used it at 14,000 with two people with good sats.  Above 14K, I put my pax on the Imogen and I use the ship O2 system.  With the Mountain High O2D2 I normally get filled at annual and that is good until the next one.

[Fritz1]

wondering when an O2 generator will be available that is powerful enough to supply two people in the high teens, I use the precise flight demand conservers with the boom cannula with good results, cuts down the O2 consumption by about 2/3, put i-phone ear buds over the outlets of the boom cannulas which further improves oxygenation, keep O2 tank in the hangar, usually swap tank once or twice a year, think rental is $120 per year, swap is another $120 each, truck comes to hangar, pretty convenient and reliable, biggest reason for having tank is not to have to deal with the FBO who usually dings something, either the airplane or the O2 door, usually swap tank when it is about half empty, about 900 psi, transfer boost pump is prohibitively expensive, think new about $14k new, not event FBO has one, never even saw a used one for sale, most FBOs just daisy chain two or three tanks, keep portable backup tank in the airplane, with the concentrator backup tank is highly recommended as well, never had any issue with O2 supply in the Bravo, go to FL210 on a regular basis, go to full flow at 8000 ft when climbing into the flight levels

[Hank]

20 minutes ago, Fritz1 said:

put i-phone ear buds over the outlets of the boom cannulas which further improves oxygenation, 

Ear buds in your nose help you breathe better???

[Schllc]

The airlines are awful and I avoid them at all costs. Last big trip my family we took was to Wyoming as well. On the trip we had 7 legs (total for trip and retuen). My wife booked them first class for our family which was $16k. I never really looked at the tickets until we got to the airport.  Out of seven legs, only one was first class, which was the shortest of the seven flights. 
I called American and they said we booked first class rates so they would make zero adjustments. And we would be upgraded anywhere if the opportunity presented.
it did not.
They have turned into cattle cars, and designed to siphon money at every single opportunity, and to make you as uncomfortable as possible. With the benefit of making sure at least one in your party picks up a bug from someone in the process. . 
I won’t even go into the weirdness of the people in the airport today…

[jlunseth]

Shoot Don, I wish I had known you were there I would have looked for you just to say hi. So if you have a Bravo with TKS and are instrument current you probably have a superior traveling machine. But I was out of instrument currency and coming from Minnesota that weather you dealt with at CYS spilled out over the prairie for two days. At one point there was an IFR Airmet that looked like Pacman and stretched from SD to TX coming across the prairie. I left on Thursday and could not find any safe route, so spent one night in a motel in O'Neill and another in a bed at the FBO. Finally flew from KONL to KCYS on Saturday morning early and flew with Jerry Proctor. Now I am instrument current so the trip back was pretty easy even though I flew into the back end of the weather when I got to MN. Haven't had the 787 experience. I fly with Delta when I go commercial and it generally works out pretty good. However you look at it, air travel can be a dicey thing. I guess we all need a private jet with warm wings like Tom Cruise.

I have a good friend in Cheyenne who flew all over during his working career (commercial). He never flew out of CYS, he always drove to Denver and went from there. Poor connections from CYS I guess.

I have been to CYS a couple of times now in my aircraft. Especially in the spring they get those storms that come over the mountains and pick up speed as they spill down the slope. There were peak winds on Friday of 61 kts at the airport according to Foreflight's wx reports. 

Stay safe.

[NickG]

Yes, @donkaye, MCFI - I regularly fly 10-17K in my Ovation that doesn’t have factory O2. I have an Inogen G5 and it is spectacular to all the  altitudes I fly (up to 18k). I have a supplemental tank which is for passengers. The Inogen is so easy and convenient I generally use it any time I’m above 7k. Why not! Couldn’t recommend it enough.

[Fritz1]

the phone ear buds on the cannula outlets taper inward, they almost seal when you breathe in, you draw more O2 and less air, allow you to still breathe out easily through your nose since they flex, costs nothing and improves oxygenation, have an O2 mask, but hardly ever use it, cannulas with the ear buds work well into the high teens

[donkaye, MCFI]

3 hours ago, Pinecone said:

And pretty much anything under 3 hours domestic, even in first you get the snack basket to choose from.

On the trip to Cheyenne in the 737 the breakfast was excellent on the 2 hour flight to Denver.  We expected the same on the flight back. My guess is that there were only 16 1st Class seats in 4 rows on the 737 as opposed to I think about 60 seats in 15 rows on the 787.  I suppose with the limited amount of flight attendants a crappy food (?) box is what you get.

I had considered driving from Denver to Cheyenne, but getting to the rental cars was the problem.  That airport is so big I knew I would have had an issue with Shirley's mobility. As it was, although she resisted, she accepted wheelchair assistance from gate to gate for the first time ever.  Thank goodness for that assistance!  I could barely keep up the kid who helped us, and I used the people walker to keep up with him.  After long confusing walks and 2 elevator uses we got there, but I never would have known how to do it.  He seemed surprise when I gave him big tip, as did the others on the return trip.  I thought Denver was bad in that regards, but San Francisco was even worse and it's a much smaller airport.

[Andy95W]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

Ear buds in your nose help you breathe better???

Only the Apple ones, Hank.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Andy95W said:

Only the Apple ones, Hank.

Not the ear bud itself, but a silicone piece that fits the end of it? That's what I took from follow-on statements above.

[Fritz1]

yes, absolutely, only the silicone pieces, slide onto the outlet tubes of the cannula, acts almost like a check valve

[Pinecone]

2 hours ago, donkaye, MCFI said:

On the trip to Cheyenne in the 737 the breakfast was excellent on the 2 hour flight to Denver.  We expected the same on the flight back. My guess is that there were only 16 1st Class seats in 4 rows on the 737 as opposed to I think about 60 seats in 15 rows on the 787.  I suppose with the limited amount of flight attendants a crappy food (?) box is what you get.

I had considered driving from Denver to Cheyenne, but getting to the rental cars was the problem.  That airport is so big I knew I would have had an issue with Shirley's mobility. As it was, although she resisted, she accepted wheelchair assistance from gate to gate for the first time ever.  Thank goodness for that assistance!  I could barely keep up the kid who helped us, and I used the people walker to keep up with him.  After long confusing walks and 2 elevator uses we got there, but I never would have known how to do it.  He seemed surprise when I gave him big tip, as did the others on the return trip.  I thought Denver was bad in that regards, but San Francisco was even worse and it's a much smaller airport.

More seats is no excuse.  But welcome to the world of traveling on airlines.

But the service if you had been international would have been a LOT nicer.

I gave up a couple of years ago on walking through airports.  I just get wheelchair assistance.  Much less hassle.  And it is amazing, but they do seem to be surprised when you give them a trip.

The amazing thing is, many times the door to door travel time is about the same or even faster in my Mooney.  Last trip I took was to Tampa.  From home to airport - 45 minutes.  Arrive 2 hours before flight - 2+45.  First leg two hours - 4+45, Connecting time 45 minutes - 5+30, second leg 1 hour - 6+30. 

Mooney - 10 minutes from home to airport - 10 minutes.  Arrival to takeoff, say 30 minutes if moving slowly - 40 minutes.  Flight time 5+30 - 6+10.  Hmmmmmm

I figure the time to unload the Mooney and tie it down and button up is about the same as getting off the plane, going to baggage claim and waiting for the luggage.

Only reason I did not fly the Mooney was we were going on a cruise, and it would have been a mess trying to get the amount of luggage for the cruise into the airplane (and back out).

[dkkim73]

@donkaye, MCFI I'm sorry you had a bad experience on the return trip; it sounds like you were proactive in trying to mitigate that via First Class. It was nice to meet you, and I heard wonderful things from the people you flew with. 

Unfortunately the airlines seem to have picked up the general corporate practice of figuring out what they can get away with in downgrading services (coined as "Gotcha Capitalism" about 10 yrs ago). Sad but not entirely surprising this has percolated up to First Class. I'm always pleasantly surprised when I get good service in the last few years. I always make a point of thanking the flight attendants in those cases; I figure anything to reinforce positive cultural norms. 

The airline reliability factor was surprising on a few trips in the last two years. They will oversell, schedule tightly, and as a result (plus maybe some external factors) I've had about 30% of trips have big delays or cancellations forcing some kind of scramble. Last was the day before Easter, happened about a 22 hr drive away from home. Twice recently I've kicked myself for not chancing the wx and just going by Mooney. 

KCYS was not as fluid as I'd hoped. I'd thought the wx environment, logistics, etc, would be closer to home, but it was surprisingly throwing a lot of wrenches into peoples' plans (storms, hale, wind, etc). I suppose people got some good cross wind training! Hotel was meh (I think I got food poisoning which happily waited until a few hours after landing to put me down). 

But the program itself was fantastic! Highly-recommended to those who haven't gone. It was my first time. Don's story illustrates perhaps that there are a number of very senior instructors who schlep out there as a labor of love to keep the community active. Some really cool people with suprising resumes but down-to-earth and willing to share wisdom. Good lectures, lots of nitty-gritty expertise. Great value on the flight instruction, too. Got a BFR and IPC and my first real no-power-to-the-airport full landing scenario, a couple overheads, lots of Acclaim-specific tips. The AP deflating early on really sharpened the instrument work, LOL...

Good to meet a couple of you there! 

David

[cliffy]

@donkaye, MCFI

From St George Utah to Houston TX,  I can match airline total travel time in my 64' D model !!! About 7 1/2 hrs

I can have good catering on board and TRAVEL ARMED!!! :-)

Going further we go 1st Class IF possible and if time is of the essence. You have to watch what airline you are flying because most the the lower tier commuters do not have a 1st Class section. Why pay for it if its not available? Look out for "Mixed Cabin" demarcation.

Back when I started at Continental Airlines (in the late 60s) we actually carved full Prime Rib roasts seat side in 1st class, with ice cream hot fudge sundaes for desert. Bacon wrapped filet mignon was a big seller! :-)

We have found a large (very large ) difference in 1st class treatment among the different airlines with United at the bottom of the list. Delta seems to us to be as good or better than the crowd with "decent" first class service.

Going overseas (South Pacific) we have found Air France to be far and away the best for service and pricing. 

There are maybe 3 different "lay flat" capsules for 1st class  service  and each one has its own problems. All seem to me to be rather confining BUT much better for overseas and 10 hrs than even Coach Premium. Plus being first off for customs is a big help!  All have a big divider between the side by side seats.

Over all if I have the time (and logistics) we go by Mooney even to Florida a year ago. Much nicer way to travel than to fight TSA and the crowd at the airline airports even when going 1st class.

[Pinecone]

WAY more that 3 different seats.  FYI, many international flight do not have a 1st class.  The highest is Business class.  But there can be 3 classes below BC.   Economy is lowest.  Then there is Economy Plus (called different things) and some airlines have a Premium Economy.   The BC on these carriers is really 1st but just not called that due many employers not allowing international 1st travel.

Air France, Lufthansa, British Air and Singapore still have 1st.

But every airline has a different seats for their highest class.  

Best I have done recently is Qatar Air.  It starts when your FA introduces herself..  One FA per 4 pax..  Then they deliver you lounging pajamas to change into after take off.  And it goes like that the entire flight.

[exM20K]

10 hours ago, dkkim73 said:

and my first real no-power-to-the-airport full landing scenario

Do tell….

-dan