jelswick Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 We were in Chicago at Midway an extra day more than planned last weekend. We were in a bit of a hurry in preflight and trying to get out for home Sunday evening between weather. It had rained throughout the day and I'd had the FBO top the tanks. When I sumped the tanks as part of preflight, I got cup after cup of water instead of fuel. Found the person that fueled it had jammed the fuel caps in so tight and at an angle that they were impossible to get off by hand. I went back into the FBO and they had the head of the maintenance they use on the field come out to check it and he couldn't get them off, took a bunch of pictures and they ended up paying our hotel and food, hanger to prevent more rain getting in over night and fixing the mistake. My family was very shook up knowing what that would have meant if we'd tried takeoff with water like that (hopefully would have killed the engine before getting to point of takeoff). My 12 year old was so shook up about the possibility of leaving his sister without all three of us since she wasn't flying with us on that trip. He wants to fly, go to USAFA, etc. as soon as he can and I told him it was at least a lesson in why you check everything, every time and don't get complacent. It's taken me since last Monday to get okay enough about the incident to share it here without anger coming through about the mistake made in fueling, but a good lesson to me again and thought worth sharing with others just as a point of no matter how well we know our own aircraft, it's still important to not get complacent in the preflight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 That's part of the reason no one fuels my plane without me being there to watch the fuel go into the plane and I'm the only one who touches the fuel caps...both on and off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelswick Posted May 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 That sounds like a good policy to me Nick and will do the same from now on. I didn't realize that was necessary especially with such an experienced FBO, no issues for me in 11 yrs of ownership to date, but just got the proof myself that that is not a safe assumption to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Excelent job catching it on the ground on preflight Jelswick! Gives me the shivers to think what if! God forbid! Ditto 201flyer! Never assume anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Great catch, Jim. Be vigilant! Nobody touches our plane unsupervised. Fortunately I learned of this fuel cap issue pretty early on from the CSOB article linked below. Beech's use the same fuel cap. The fuel system in Mooney's is already a weak point and the brand suffers engine failures at a elevated rate compared to the others in its class. Another thing, check those fuel cap o-rings, especially the one on the center shaft. Be extremely alert if your Mooney gets rained on. Make sure there is water filling the recess in the cap if it has been wet. If not, it leaked into your tank. http://csobeech.com/fuel-caps.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelswick Posted May 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Thank you both and that's great info on the water expected to be in the recess. I noticed that yesterday after washing 45T, but didn't know that was a design feature. 11 years flying and I'm still learning new stuff all the time. Have a I mentioned in a while what a great asset we have in this forum? Have a great rest of your weekend all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs007 Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 If your son wants to fly, USNA gives him a MUCH better chance of that... If he goes USMC from there, I believe they have the widest variety of platforms and missions in modern combat. But maybe I'm biased... Anyway, Great catch! Not only is it good to be thorough, but standardize your thoroughness so you never miss anything. And good luck to your son, he is definately on the right track! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorealOne Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Quote: 201-FLYER That's part of the reason no one fuels my plane without me being there to watch the fuel go into the plane and I'm the only one who touches the fuel caps...both on and off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbridges Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Jim, I am so glad that you made that catch. Especially in light of recent bad news on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyMitch Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Congratulations Jim! As others have stated, we let no one fuel our airplanes unless we are right there standing next to the person. We also do the the fuel cap removal and installation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantom Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Agree with fueling and cap removal & replacement, no matter how inconvenient, especially in rain! Make certain those inner fuel-cap-rings are changed at every annual. They aren't real easy to switch out and lots of A&Ps skip them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co2bruce Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 I had an experience at a major airport, where I requested 15 gallons per side and when I returned to leave they had filled both tanks to the brim. Never trust the line people to do anything. You made a great catch, I will learn from your experience. That's the beauty of our community we can learn from each othe and be safer, more proficient pilots. Thanks for your story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaV8or Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 I sump everytime after fuel is added, so if I'm not doing the fueling, I always tell them to leave the caps off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottfromiowa Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Quote: co2bruce I had an experience at a major airport, where I requested 15 gallons per side and when I returned to leave they had filled both tanks to the brim. Never trust the line people to do anything. You made a great catch, I will learn from your experience. That's the beauty of our community we can learn from each othe and be safer, more proficient pilots. Thanks for your story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 If the caps still leak after the O-rings have been replaced.... Check the neck that they are sealing into. Rust has a tendency to eat all the way through on non- stainless versions... There are stainless solutions for this serious challenge. -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danb35 Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Quote: fantom Make certain those inner fuel-cap-rings are changed at every annual. They aren't real easy to switch out and lots of A&Ps skip them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelswick Posted May 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Thanks for the kind comments from everyone on catching this, but you're being very kind. I would have been at fault and should be if I hadn't. It was a bad mistake by the line person filling it, but we have checks and balances and the preflight is our side of the balance. To have missed it could have ended horrendously and it would have been my fault missing it. I thought it worth sharing in case anyone else would benefit from it, but it was as much a reminder to me as to anyone else. I love the ability to whisk my family away to places in such a wonderful machine and thank God for the blessings that got me to where I can; something I've wanted to do since about 6 years old. But, I try to tell myself every time I get in 45T, she's gorgeous, but she bites hard and unforgivingly if not treated or flown properly. I'm far from the perfect pilot and learn new things frequently as I did from a few of the posts here today. No more letting my aircraft be fueled without me there to supervise it; that was great advice from many of you and thank you for it. Jared, great advice! BUT, USNA is the most difficult academically or at least it was in the past. If things havent changed since the 80's in that way, USAFA is about in the middle and USMA is supposed to be the toughest physically, but not academically. All are great, but guess which one I got into! I had the USMC scholarship if I hadn't gotten into one of them, but did head to USMA and then with my 19-20 year old brain decided after the 2nd year to go civilian since I was raised as an army brat and wanted to see civilian life; long story and wish I'd done the full thing now, but at 20, being locked in until you're an old man of 27 years (grin) seemed like a lifetime. But, you are right, any of the three will do him well and definitely appreciate the USNA/USMC advice; no questioning it on my part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triple8s Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 I have always been concerned about the water that gets into the recess caps. I carry a roll of clear 2 inch packing tape on the hat rack and tape over my fuel caps if I have to park outside overnite or if rain is pending, gets me some stupid looks but its my butt and my plane. Sumping the tanks IS on my outside checklist, and thats the last thing I do before getting inside. I always fuel my own plane too, one time after fueling I sumped like always, and expected to see pretty blue liquid in the cup, not so, seems I had pumped in several gallons of water. I always use the checklist, always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennett Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 I certainly agee with closing the fuel caps myself. My usual practice is to take the caps off myself, and then, after fueling, reset them myself. At my home airport we fuel from a truck. If I have had to have left the aircraft for later fueling, the first thing I do is to open the fuel caps, look inside, and then reseat them myself. Learned this the hard way (like so many other experineces in aviation). I took off in the wee hours of the morning for a long trip that would push my fuel reserves. I sumped the tanks after having paid a substantial bill for "topping both tanks", but (and this was many years ago when I thought I was immortal), didn't check the tank caps. Oh, they didn't cheat me on fuel, they were filled, but one of the caps was improperly seated and airflow over the wing was sucking out fuel. I first noted the fuel gauge going down faster than anticipated - lots faster, and then I looked carefully at the wing behind the fuel cap - fuel could be seen on the wing, and some vapor trail behind. By now I was in the flight levels, and so there was no choice but to return to the nearest airport, refuel, and seat the cap properly. A fair amount of my flying has been over water, and so this lesson is imbedded on my brain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs007 Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Quote: jelswick Thanks for the kind comments from everyone on catching this, but you're being very kind. I would have been at fault and should be if I hadn't. It was a bad mistake by the line person filling it, but we have checks and balances and the preflight is our side of the balance. To have missed it could have ended horrendously and it would have been my fault missing it. I thought it worth sharing in case anyone else would benefit from it, but it was as much a reminder to me as to anyone else. I love the ability to whisk my family away to places in such a wonderful machine and thank God for the blessings that got me to where I can; something I've wanted to do since about 6 years old. But, I try to tell myself every time I get in 45T, she's gorgeous, but she bites hard and unforgivingly if not treated or flown properly. I'm far from the perfect pilot and learn new things frequently as I did from a few of the posts here today. No more letting my aircraft be fueled without me there to supervise it; that was great advice from many of you and thank you for it. Jared, great advice! BUT, USNA is the most difficult academically or at least it was in the past. If things havent changed since the 80's in that way, USAFA is about in the middle and USMA is supposed to be the toughest physically, but not academically. All are great, but guess which one I got into! I had the USMC scholarship if I hadn't gotten into one of them, but did head to USMA and then with my 19-20 year old brain decided after the 2nd year to go civilian since I was raised as an army brat and wanted to see civilian life; long story and wish I'd done the full thing now, but at 20, being locked in until you're an old man of 27 years (grin) seemed like a lifetime. But, you are right, any of the three will do him well and definitely appreciate the USNA/USMC advice; no questioning it on my part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WardHolbrook Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Quote: 201-FLYER That's part of the reason no one fuels my plane without me being there to watch the fuel go into the plane and I'm the only one who touches the fuel caps...both on and off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Great thread Jim. Every item on that check list is there for a reason because there is something that can bite you. I have never found water in my sump but I always check. But two other things come immediatly to mind. 1) Last summer checking inside the cowl after just an overnight at KFDK a bird had moved in and brought lots of straw - I was in a bit of a hurry to leave but did all my checks and found lots of straw - so there I was in 95deg on a the taramac for 30 min removing straw and glad for it removing it on the ground rather than finding out in the air. 2) My previous airplane was a DA40 which has a center stick - turns out if you place your ipad on the passenger set flat then when you try to pull back on the stick if the ipad is placed funny it will hang up on the ipad. I found that out on my "controls free and correct" check on the hold short final check list. Wouldn't that be fun finding out that your controls are mucked up on take off roll. Everything is there for a reason. Quote: jelswick Thanks for the kind comments from everyone on catching this, but you're being very kind. I would have been at fault and should be if I hadn't. It was a bad mistake by the line person filling it, but we have checks and balances and the preflight is our side of the balance. To have missed it could have ended horrendously and it would have been my fault missing it. I thought it worth sharing in case anyone else would benefit from it, but it was as much a reminder to me as to anyone else. I love the ability to whisk my family away to places in such a wonderful machine and thank God for the blessings that got me to where I can; something I've wanted to do since about 6 years old. But, I try to tell myself every time I get in 45T, she's gorgeous, but she bites hard and unforgivingly if not treated or flown properly. I'm far from the perfect pilot and learn new things frequently as I did from a few of the posts here today. No more letting my aircraft be fueled without me there to supervise it; that was great advice from many of you and thank you for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Quote: WardHolbrook I agree with this 100%. Also, remember that it takes a while for any water in the fuel to migrate to the sumps (about 15 to 20 minutes in most fuel tanks) so don't be in a big rush to blast off after fueling. Fuel, wait at least 20 minutes then sump. I learned that lesson the hard way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 I worry sometimes that opening the cap if there is any water at all on it, would cause the water to drip into the tank. I have thought of adding a turkey baster to my preflight kit for this purpose. I hangar my airplane, but it does get rained on if I travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyMitch Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 We use a clean cotton terry cloth to wick the water out of the fuel cap recess prior to opening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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