Sequential practice approaches GTN750xi

[PeytonM]

What is best practice for flying a short round robin to two local airports with an approach at each? Unlike Avidyne, I know that I cannot load approaches at each airport in the flight plan with Garmin. I have to fly one before I can load the next.  Do I need to delete the previous approach before loading the next? Or is it easier to create separate flight plans?

[wombat]

It's kind of hacky, but I load up a new flight plan on my iPad with ForeFlight, then transfer that flight plan through the FlightStream to the Garmin.  This overwrites the old flight plan.  

You can even do that with the same flight plan just to start 'fresh'.

[donkaye, MCFI]

This is one of the many great benefits of the GTNs.  Any approach to any airport can be loaded while on the missed approach from your current airport and the current missed will continue and not be deleted.  Absolutely no need to delete anything.  When you're ready for the next approach you can activate it.  I "ping pong" approaches off of 4 different airports in the Monterey Bay area all the time.  Without that capability the workload would be significantly increased.  With it I can easily do all the required items like setting frequencies and getting weather, and flying the plane (or monitor the AP flying the plane) and the Controller can easily fit me into sequences effortlessly without unnecessary vectoring.

[hammdo]

What Don said. I do this all the time when training and going to multiple airports. I also load up the Garmin trainer and practice. 
 

-Don

[carusoam]

Great details DK!

thanks for sharing them.

-a-

[midlifeflyer]

Use the flight plan catalog to set up the ones after the first one and load it when ready. It’s also a way to set up an alternate in advance if you think you will need one.

On one of my IPCs, as the airplane was warming up, I was doing this with the three approaches in our plan of action. My CFII had never seen this and asked what the heck I was doing. When I told him, he said, “this I’ve gotta see.” He was amazed.

The method Don mentioned works great, but in addition to only working with the latest GTN releases, there’s the big one he  mentioned: you have to be on the missed approach. It’s really designed for a situation where you are trying to set up an alternate while holding in the published missed.  Get an ATC-directed missed and it’s a different ballgame.

If you have an Avidyne IFD, you can go one better - no restrictions on adding multiple approaches to multiple airports right in the FMS. The downside there is, you end up with a lot of potentially confusing clutter in the flight plan. And if it’s a 440 rather than a 5-series, it will be next to impossible to keep straight.

The big upside of the catalog method is it will work in an IFD, GTNxi, GTN, GNS, (including the 480), & G1000. 

 

[donkaye, MCFI]

2 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

Use the flight plan catalog to set up the ones after the first one and load it when ready. It’s also a way to set up an alternate in advance if you think you will need one.

On one of my IPCs, as the airplane was warming up, I was doing this with the three approaches in our plan of action. My CFII had never seen this and asked what the heck I was doing. When I told him, he said, “this I’ve gotta see.” He was amazed.

The method Don mentioned works great, but in addition to only working with the latest GTN releases, there’s the big one he  mentioned: you have to be on the missed approach. It’s really designed for a situation where you are trying to set up an alternate while holding in the published missed.  Get an ATC-directed missed and it’s a different ballgame.

If you have an Avidyne IFD, you can go one better - no restrictions on adding multiple approaches to multiple airports right in the FMS. The downside there is, you end up with a lot of potentially confusing clutter in the flight plan. And if it’s a 440 rather than a 5-series, it will be next to impossible to keep straight.

The big upside of the catalog method is it will work in an IFD, GTNxi, GTN, GNS, (including the 480), & G1000. 

 

The above would work for storing multiple airports with approaches. Once the new airport approach was activated from the catalog, different approaches could be activated from the same airport, but why do that?  If you still have the approach from the airport you just used and ATC is vectoring you, you can save the step of going to the Catalog by just tapping the Approach, tapping Select Approach, Selecting another airport, and selecting an approach from the new airport.  The original purpose was to load an approach from another airport while still flying the missed and not loose your current navigation.  If ATC is vectoring you, you can load another approach from any airport following the guide I mentioned above, because you don't have to fly a particular sequence.

[PeteMc]

5 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

Use the flight plan catalog to set up the ones after the first one and load it when ready. It’s also a way to set up an alternate in advance if you think you will need one.

That seems like a LOT of extra work for no reason. Don's way is about about 1/3 of the keystrokes for just the first FP you're programming in, not to then count all the others.  If you missed the process it is simple.  So I'm taking the original question to mean VFR Practice Approaches so even if you're talking to ATC, there's no Clearance involved. 

So you get to the MAP and go missed.  Anywhere in the process now that you've told the GTN you're going Missed you go to PROC, change the Apt to the next one you're flying to (or use the same Apt), pick the Approach, pick the entry to the Approach or Vectors and Activate the Approach.  Now follow the Magenta Line.

You do not need to go into the FP and remove the old Approach, load a new Apt, none of that.  If you load a new Approach to a new Airport, the GTN is taking you to the new Apt.  (Or take you to the fix for a different Approach at the same Apt.) 

If on a real Approach in IMC, it's basically the same thing.  You can either go hold at the Missed Approach Point or just tell ATC you need to go to your Alternate.  Since you have the time I'd probably take the time to remove the old Approach and add the new Apt at the end or add the Clearance I got to the end, but it's not necessary.  If the next Apt is close and you don't want to punch buttons, you can just add the new Approach and away you go.  

[ArtVandelay]

That seems like a LOT of extra work for no reason. Don's way is about about 1/3 of the keystrokes for just the first FP you're programming in, not to then count all the others.  If you missed the process it is simple.  So I'm taking the original question to mean VFR Practice Approaches so even if you're talking to ATC, there's no Clearance involved. 
So you get to the MAP and go missed.  Anywhere in the process now that you've told the GTN you're going Missed you go to PROC, change the Apt to the next one you're flying to (or use the same Apt), pick the Approach, pick the entry to the Approach or Vectors and Activate the Approach.  Now follow the Magenta Line.
You do not need to go into the FP and remove the old Approach, load a new Apt, none of that.  If you load a new Approach to a new Airport, the GTN is taking you to the new Apt.  (Or take you to the fix for a different Approach at the same Apt.) 
If on a real Approach in IMC, it's basically the same thing.  You can either go hold at the Missed Approach Point or just tell ATC you need to go to your Alternate.  Since you have the time I'd probably take the time to remove the old Approach and add the new Apt at the end or add the Clearance I got to the end, but it's not necessary.  If the next Apt is close and you don't want to punch buttons, you can just add the new Approach and away you go.  

So you add the alternate airport to the end and when ready to exit the missed approach hold, then what?

[midlifeflyer]

4 hours ago, PeteMc said:

That seems like a LOT of extra work for no reason

The work is all done on the ground before takeoff.  In the air in the real world,  at worst it’s done enroute once you realize you may well have to go missed at you destination. In both cases the LOT of work, including selecting, pre-briefing, and loading the approach is done during low workload times  

No, you would not do this during the high workload period of a real missed approach where you did not prepare in advance for you would ask to go. But unless you were flying a GTN and were doing the published missed, you wouldn’t use the GTN method either.  

Bottom line, we’re talking about alternate techniques, not requirements. We choose the one we think works best for us. This one works best for me across multiple situations and multiple avionics.

[midlifeflyer]

52 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

So you add the alternate airport to the end and when ready to exit the missed approach hold, then what?

Hopefully, you have already made some decisions what you will do there. So you tell ATC what you need. Prepared in advance, maybe instead of an airport you’ve added both the alternative and a good transition fix. Far enough away that it’s VFR there? Non-issue, ask for direct. Closer with better minimums? Sure, you will still have to load the approach you want but you can buy the time you need by being proactive with ATC. Hadn’t given it any thought at all, you will be scrambling a bit no matter what method you use but, again, you can buy time with ATC.

If that sounds like I’m arguing with myself (or with Don), if you read closely, you’ll see I am not. We are presenting alternatives. They are all doable. The most important thing is you’ve given it some thought before you need it.  What you think works for you is the best one. 

[midlifeflyer]

For anyone interested. this is old at this point and the GTN capability deals great with this specific scenario. But as I mentioned earlier this method which the video does with a GNS 430 work more broadly and in most any navigator you use. Actually, if you have FlightStream, you can use Foreflight or Garmin pilot to set it up and push it when ready.

 

[PeteMc]

5 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

So you add the alternate airport to the end and when ready to exit the missed approach hold, then what?

I'm not sure what you're asking?  If it has to do with what I'd do after the missed, then the ATC part is key in that conversation.  My comment about adding the Apt at the end was if ATC Cleared me to my Alternate. 

Now whether I'd take the time to clean up the old Approach and add add the next Apt to my FP would have a lot to do with if that Apt was 5 min away or 30 min away?  That will factor in to what you're going to do.  Pending the distance ATC may give you a Route or, the very few times I've gone to an Alternate, they just clear me Direct.  So I'd clean up the old Approach, add the new Apt to the end and go.  Or you can just press the Direct Button and stick in the new Apt, whatever works for you.  

Then once on your way you can plug in the Approach for the next Apt.  Probably what you planned on, but you never know if the winds have changed, someone blew a tire or whatever.  So I never assume the Approach I think I'll get from my mid flight check or even from before the flight will be what you actually will get.  Or if the Apt is 5 min away, odds are ATC is going to send you to a Fix that starts the Approach.  So that's where you just go into PROC, change to the new Apt, pick the Approach and Activate to that Fix.

 

[PeytonM]

Thanks DK! I’ve successfully used your technique for practice approaches.
 

I need to be careful with FF; the map looks like spaghetti after a couple approaches. I think I’ll suspend download of Flight routes during practice approaches.