Another Just sorry he was in a Mooney - can't fly IFR because iPad died

[shawnd]

This pilot can’t fly IFR because his “iPad has died”.. LOST IN INSTRUMENT APPROACH

https://youtu.be/WR1hKMvszS0?feature=shared

(if someone can tell me how to embed YouTube videos here, will be appreciated)

Tagging with tail # for search: N7183V

[toto]

There were a couple of threads on this a few months back -

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/46729-alright-which-one-of-you-was-this/

 

[shawnd]

Ah missed that one - the video was posted a few days ago so thought this is something new. Grr YouToobers.

[PeteMc]

Just a remake with different pictures of the same audio recording from a few months back.

When you listen to the Pilot voice, there's more going on than just his (supposed) iPad issues.

 

[Utah20Gflyer]

It seemed to me he was being deceptive about having an IFR capable GPS.   Otherwise why would he have such difficulty loading the approach and selecting the IAF the controller assigned.   Also, if you don’t really have a gps then when your IPad dies why not ask for a ILS, Localizer or VOR approach?   ATC could vector you to intercept the final approach course.  Shouldn’t be that difficult. 
 

I wonder if all the Nav equipment in the plane was INOP and the IPad was his only method of navigation.   It seems that way.  

[Hank]

12 hours ago, shawnd said:

https://youtu.be/WR1hKMvszS0?feature=shared

(if someone can tell me how to embed YouTube videos here, will be appreciated)

I just go to the youtube address bar, right click, Copy; then come here and ctrl-V and it first pastes in the address and updates to the thumbnail.

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, Utah20Gflyer said:

It seemed to me he was being deceptive about having an IFR capable GPS.   Otherwise why would he have such difficulty loading the approach and selecting the IAF the controller assigned.  

According to the sales listing the airplane had a GNS430W.  What we don't know is who was flying it. If, as some suppose, the pilot wasn't instrument rated, he may not have known how to use much of anything other than Direct on his iPad. The inability to follow the simplest ATC instructions suggests something more than iPad failure was going on.

[shawnd]

28 minutes ago, Hank said:

I just go to the youtube address bar, right click, Copy; then come here and ctrl-V and it first pastes in the address and updates to the thumbnail.

Interesting - when I posted this yesterday, it gave me an error saying YouTube doesn't allow embedding videos so it couldn't add the preview. And guess what - it works today

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, Utah20Gflyer said:

It seemed to me he was being deceptive about having an IFR capable GPS.   Otherwise why would he have such difficulty loading the approach and selecting the IAF the controller assigned.  

I think you would be surprised by the number of perfectly capable IFR GPS navigators in airplanes that don't really get used because the pilot doesn't know what buttons to push.

[shawnd]

8 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

According to the sales listing the airplane had a GNS430W.  What we don't know is who was flying it. If, as some suppose, the pilot wasn't instrument rated, he may not have known how to use much of anything other than Direct on his iPad. The inability to follow the simplest ATC instructions suggests something more than iPad failure was going on.

Agree. My guess is he was a VFR pilot who inadvertently ended up in IMC. But didn't want to declare emergency to get out - which is the unfortunate part. He was taking vectors clearly so likely using AP to its fullest potential.

[kortopates]

Anyone ever hear if there was any follow up from the FAA? It could save this pilots life and who he flies with.

[Utah20Gflyer]

3 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

According to the sales listing the airplane had a GNS430W.  What we don't know is who was flying it. If, as some suppose, the pilot wasn't instrument rated, he may not have known how to use much of anything other than Direct on his iPad. The inability to follow the simplest ATC instructions suggests something more than iPad failure was going on.

The hypothesis of not being instrument rated is plausible.   His inability to fly assigned headings would be further evidence of this.  That’s ballsy to ask for an IFR clearance without an instrument rating though,  not something I would do but there are people much different than me who might.   
 

It could also be that his Garmin 430 was INOP for some reason and he was not instrument proficient.  Whatever the exact scenario,  this was a complete cluster and this guy wasn’t being honest about it.  It made it a lot more difficult for the controller to help him properly and put himself and his passengers in danger.  I hope this experience was a wake up call for him.  

[midlifeflyer]

14 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

Do you have the sales listing?  And date that it was advertised?

I can’t locate it now. There’s a 10 year old description right here on MooneySpace. I think the one I saw may have been more recent, since the airplane was transferred around the time of this incident.

https://www.flightaware.com/resources/registration/N7183V

[RescueMunchkin]

On 2/13/2024 at 5:02 AM, midlifeflyer said:

I can’t locate it now. There’s a 10 year old description right here on MooneySpace. I think the one I saw may have been more recent, since the airplane was transferred around the time of this incident.

https://www.flightaware.com/resources/registration/N7183V

 

[Shadrach]

On 2/12/2024 at 11:35 AM, Utah20Gflyer said:

It seemed to me he was being deceptive about having an IFR capable GPS.   Otherwise why would he have such difficulty loading the approach and selecting the IAF the controller assigned.   Also, if you don’t really have a gps then when your IPad dies why not ask for a ILS, Localizer or VOR approach?   ATC could vector you to intercept the final approach course.  Shouldn’t be that difficult. 
 

I wonder if all the Nav equipment in the plane was INOP and the IPad was his only method of navigation.   It seems that way.  

This incident occurred on 09/29/2023 at the end of a flight from Gallatin, TN KXNX to Martinsburg, WV KMRB. Current owner who is instrument rated was registered as owner on 10/31/2023 and is based in Winfield, LA.  Previous owner was based in Gallatin, TN (where the incident flight originated) and does not show an Instrument rating in the FAA data base. 
plane flew home back to TN the day after the incident. Looks like one other short hop (perhaps a test flight for new seller) before repoing to LA on 10/15/2023.

[kortopates]

I came across a video that provided some closure on this incident, although it didn't clarify the owner or pilot flying at the time.

But the video blogger said he followed up with the controller, and learned that the tower and approach controller treated it as an emergency without declaring it so, and that the FAA did get involved and required the pilot to get remedial training before flying the plane again. 

 

 

[Jim Peace]

 

[Paul Thomas]

wow... poor wife on board! It's amazing the how helpful controllers are.

If we keep having iPad issue, I can see the FAA requiring a power source for them on board. We are going to work ourselves into being regulated for electronic charts.

[N201MKTurbo]

The problem isn’t power, it is heat! I have had my iPad shutdown from the heat while keeping it in the shade. If I let the sun shine on it it will shut down for sure. I usually keep it between the seats with the fresh air vent blowing on it. 
 

I know I could get one of those fan holders, but they are so bulky. I usually just leave it down there unless I have to look at it, then I put it on my knee.

[Fly Boomer]

9 minutes ago, Paul Thomas said:

wow... poor wife on board!

Exactly what I thought.  ATC keeps asking about fuel, nearest VFR is 3 hours away, pilot can't get down using his iPad.  Has to be terrifying.

[IvanP]

Glad he landed safely and hope that he bougt a nice bottle of Scotch for controller who saved their lives.

I tried couple different i-products in the past and was not impressed with them for use in cockpit. My preference is for purpose-built units, e.g, Garmin Area, etc. Of course, it is a personal choice and evey pilot needs to find what works best for him/her. One good argument for the G-products is the similarity of interfaces. My Aera760 and GTN 750 installed in the plane have very similar UI. In case the main unit goes out, switching to the Area as back-up nav will be non-event and lot less stressful than i-pad situation. I recall that i-pads have the tendencey to overheat and shut down in some situations. OF course, the battely life issue aplies to all portables. Having a connection to power source during the entire flight is, in my opinion, imperative, regardless of what unit one chooses. 

[EricJ]

43 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I know I could get one of those fan holders, but they are so bulky.

Or just get an Android. 

[Paul Thomas]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

The problem isn’t power, it is heat! I have had my iPad shutdown from the heat while keeping it in the shade. If I let the sun shine on it it will shut down for sure. I usually keep it between the seats with the fresh air vent blowing on it. 
 

I know I could get one of those fan holders, but they are so bulky. I usually just leave it down there unless I have to look at it, then I put it on my knee.

I wish heat was their problem!

I think different iPad models have different heat tolerances. I live in South Florida and I have never gotten the heat warning in flight. My wife's iPad has given heat warning on multiple occasions but she's always managed to cool it enough to avoid a shutdown. A little shade and airflow goes a long way. She keeps it open all flight long while I often close mine and store it between the front seats. When flying IMC, heat shouldn't be an issue.

When my wife is onboard, we fly with three Foreflight licenses: two iPads onboard + my iPhone. I also print the plate for destination and alternate if there is a chance the weather will be IFR.

If a competent pilot requests vectors to give time for an iPad to cool, or have a plate read to them so that they could shoot an approach, I'd have no issue with that. Failures will happen. My issue with these two guys is they didn't give the appearance of being competent.

[N201MKTurbo]

2 hours ago, EricJ said:

Or just get an Android. 

That’s crazy talk!

[Hank]

3 hours ago, EricJ said:

Or just get an Android. 

 

23 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

That’s crazy talk!

There are 1001 ways to do any given task:  the one approved Apple method, and an additional 1000 that work with android!