MAPA Email List

[DaV8or]

Quote: jwilkins

 

[rob]

My three cents:

I no longer participate in the MAPA mailing list because it's too cumbersome and full of nonsense. It's a terrible way to disseminate information. I dropped my membership there because it had no benefit to me. Others mileage may vary. 

 

Any comparisons of Mooney Aircraft Company and Hawker/Beechcraft are foolish. 

[DonMuncy]

After I joined MAPA, it took

me about 3 years to figure out it is not a

[DaV8or]

Quote: DonMuncy

You notice that I have mentioned the MAPA convention several times. This is because I believe that being able to get together (in person) with other Mooney lovers is one of the most enjoyable facets of Mooney ownership. If you haven’t attended, I urge you to come. It would be worth it even if there was no “program”. Just getting to see and talk with all of the other pilots, is worth the price.

[danb35]

Quote: Greg_D

If they are a for profilt company, and they have to pay salaries out of the dues they collect, that would seem to be a major expense.  Probably the largest, if they aren't attending trade shows.

[jetdriven]

What I dont get is why Trey doesnt post here. 

[N513ZM]

Quote: jetdriven

What I dont get is why Trey doesnt post here. 

[Greg_D]

Quote: danb35

This is equally the case if they are a nonprofit--people can (and often do) draw salaries there too.  Your comment read like "he doesn't care about the organization's needs, he's just looking out for his paycheck", which would be more of a personal attack than anything that came your way on the MAPA list.  And when you start off with "Things really are bad if the best we can do is say 'See, we suck less than the other guy'", were you really surprised that some folks would take offense?

I agree that ABS has a better web site, and I'm willing to agree that they have a better magazine (I've only seen one issue, but it did seem to be more content-rich than the LOG).  I don't agree, though, that an e-mail list is such a bad thing--in a lot of ways, it's better than a web forum like this:

A mailing list doesn't crash constantly, or at least not in a way that's visible to its members

E-mail comes directly to you; you don't have to go out and visit several web sites to follow it

You can easily direct list traffic to its own folder, so you can keep different lists separate (both from each other and from your regular e-mail).

Text e-mail takes quite a bit less bandwidth (granted, not much of an issue now with widespread broadband internet)

E-mail is much easier to use on mobile devices

Further, an e-mail list can keep archives, which can be just as search-able as a web forum--though if the MAPA list keeps archives, they're pretty well hidden.  In comparison, a web forum:

Looks prettier

Might be easier to find by doing a web search

???

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with forums, but they aren't such an obviously better solution that everybody should be using them instead of lists.

[danb35]

Quote: JimR

As far as the forum versus list debate goes, I, like probably most of you, am visually stimulated and enjoy looking at the pretty pictures that this forums allows. Otherwise the email list would work ok for me. 

[Jeff_S]

There's a lot of dissing going on here...but I suppose that Trey could take the positive spin on things and say that there's nothing like good customer feedback if you want to improve your product. To me, the difference between Mooneyspace and MAPA is that MAPA is run by real people, in Kerrville, who at the very least can keep us informed about the state of the Mooney company and have an ear to the ground in this regard. That they are managing their finances like a for-profit company doesn't bother me at all.

I will agree that the MAPA mailing list seems to devolve pretty quickly into either a bitch session on every topic or Don Maxwell and a few others telling inside jokes that most of us don't get. I would second the notion that MAPA should consider taking over Mooneyspace so it can get some much-needed investment to speed up the servers and make it overall a better product...but it's pretty good right now.

[Becca]

Quote: DonMuncy

You notice that I have mentioned the MAPA convention several times. This is because I believe that being able to get together (in person) with other Mooney lovers is one of the most enjoyable facets of Mooney ownership. If you haven’t attended, I urge you to come. It would be worth it even if there was no “program”. Just getting to see and talk with all of the other pilots, is worth the price.

Bottom line is that MAPA is the only provider of a monthly magazine, other services  and a yearly meeting of that large a number of Mooney people. Unless and until we have a better alternate, I think our interest is best served by doing our best to keep MAPA going. If you don’t like the way it is being run, send Trey constructive suggestions to improve it. Granted, he and the rest of the powers that be, have financial constraints in what they can do, but so would any other form of operation.

 

[Becca]

Quote: DonMuncy

You notice that I have mentioned the MAPA convention several times. This is because I believe that being able to get together (in person) with other Mooney lovers is one of the most enjoyable facets of Mooney ownership. If you haven’t attended, I urge you to come. It would be worth it even if there was no “program”. Just getting to see and talk with all of the other pilots, is worth the price.

Bottom line is that MAPA is the only provider of a monthly magazine, other services  and a yearly meeting of that large a number of Mooney people. Unless and until we have a better alternate, I think our interest is best served by doing our best to keep MAPA going. If you don’t like the way it is being run, send Trey constructive suggestions to improve it. Granted, he and the rest of the powers that be, have financial constraints in what they can do, but so would any other form of operation.

 

[DonMuncy]

Becca says: (Pardon my ignorance, I don't know how to put this quote in the white box like everyone else does)

"I would love to be at a convention where the full swath of pilot types attended (even wanna-be-mooney-drivers)"

I absolutely agree. I'm not sure we will ever get that "perfect mix" however. There are a bunch of reasons which may play into that. Not every pilot is motivated to go to group gathering like the yearly convention. Sitting around in meeting rooms with a bunch of people is not everyone's cup of tea. This goes double if one has a limited budget for aviation. If your choice is to make the convention or fly more often at home, some folks might prefer the latter. And it is expensive to go. When you figure in the several hundred dollars for the event itself, a bunch of meals out, and several motel/hotel nights, it adds up. Some pilots just choose to spend that money elsewhere. Additionally, some people just don't want to spend their limited vacation time on the convention. I understand and appreciate these problems.

Another problem is geographical. It is a long way for the California folks and the east coast ones to come to mid Texas. Every chance I get, I remind Trey that we need to spread it arond more. I thought it was very good to go to Colorado Springs, although it didn't do much for Florida pilots. Several years ago, we went to Chatanooga, and I noticed several people attended who don't come to Texas. There is no way to solve this problem, but every 3rd or 4th year on the east or west cost would not kill me. And there are a lot of middle ground, such as St. Louis or Kansas City.

But one of the larger problems is the one you point out, the "outsider/insider" feelings. There are two sides to this. The first time I went, I saw a bunch of folks with a string of patches or the like that indicated they had been coming for a long, long time. I'm just insensitive enough I kept interjecting myself into groups until I kinda consider myself part of it. However, that does not excuse us from not making every effort to REALLY, REALLY try to make new people welcome. There is a great tendency to get with your friends and renew your relationships with them, but I would urge all of us to make the extra effort to include new faces. Especially the young ones. Perhaps there may be some additional steps that could be taken to officially encourage this. Maybe some activity at the ice cream social that involves pairing up with randomly drawn names. Norma and I have consistently tried to pick a table at the banquet to sit with people we haven't previously known. I can't remember whether you and Byron were included in the group of Mooneyspace people who got together last year (or was it two years ago) to go eat at the Cowboy Steakhouse one evening. In any event, if anyone has any ideas on how to help this "inclusion" plan, post it, and/or notify Trey. I can assure you that no one I have run across at MAPA has ever indicated a desire to keep anyone out.

[rob]

I stopped by the MAPA tent at Osh Kosh a few years back. At the time I was a new Mooney owner and unfamiliar with the politics and personalities of the list. I was amazed at how cold the reception was. No one so much as spoke to me, including who I later found out to be Trey. Not so much as a greeting, a hello, or anything. I browsed the items for sale and left. 

I let my membership lapse after that. 

 

 

[Greg_D]

Don,

You can quote other posts by clicking on the blue link to the right of the post that says "Quote".

You're absolutely correct about the need to make folks feel more included.  Both at the convention and on the mail list.  Read the post just above this one and you'll see the attitude that seems to be coming across to the newbies.  I've seen the same thing at the events I've attended over the years and numerous folks have emailed me indicating the same thing.  On the mail list, there are a handful of regulars who jump all over anyone who posts anything contrary to their viewpoint.  One guy usually puts a little disclaimer in at the end of his posts that essentialy says "there's my viewpoint on the issue and it really doesn't matter what the rest of you think....over and out".  The same group jumps all over a newbie whenever they ask a question that was answered on the list years ago.  The newcomer is often chided for not knowing how to search the archive.  The whole affair looks like a "good ole boy's club" and you ain't invited, you ain't welcome.

[DonMuncy]

Greg,

I started to send you a PM, but thought others might like to see my response.

First, thanks for trying to help me with the quoting, but apparently I am worse off than I thought, I still can't figure out how to capture the part of the message desired, and how to get it into the response.

On the meat of your message, I would like to apologize for the ones who aren't welcoming to "outsiders". Please be assured that most of us do not have the attitude you perceive. Yes, there are some who are so interested in dealing with those who they know, they exclude the new guy. Heaven forbid, I may have done it myself. But for the most part, I think most, sincerely want to include everyone. Maybe there are a few who really want to keep the "club" exclusive, but I think they are a small minority. And yes, there are several on the MAPA list who are highly opinionated, and some who are downright arrogant. Again, I think, and hope, they are the small minority. Even though the members of this forum is generally considerate, unfortunately, we sometimes we see some pretty rude posts here, so apparently no group is immune. We all have to make our own decision about how much inconsideration we will tolerate before we abandon any group. I monitor and post on this and the MAPA list, so I believe both are worthwhile. But I would not try to convince you that you should tolerate something you find objectionable. If you should decide to participate in MAPA and come to the next convention, please make sure to let me know so I can look you up and welcome you personally, as well as introduce you to as many of the "insiders" as I have access to. Our Mooney Group is too small, with too few people participating, and anything I can do to reverse that, I'll sure give it a try.

[jetdriven]

For the record, Don Muncy goes out of his way to be friendly and approachable.  He offered my wife a ride in the car early while I slaved away for 45 minutes to gas up the Mooney , park it, tie it down, put the cover on.  I nearly died!   Thanks buddy!

Just kidding. But we have been focusing on the good ole boys a lot, there are also several like Don who go out of their way to meet people and mix it up  I appreciate that.

 

 

[N513ZM]

Quote: DonMuncy

<snip>

Another problem is geographical. It is a long way for the California folks and the east coast ones to come to mid Texas. Every chance I get, I remind Trey that we need to spread it arond more. I thought it was very good to go to Colorado Springs, although it didn't do much for Florida pilots. Several years ago, we went to Chatanooga, and I noticed several people attended who don't come to Texas. There is no way to solve this problem, but every 3rd or 4th year on the east or west cost would not kill me. And there are a lot of middle ground, such as St. Louis or Kansas City.

But one of the larger problems is the one you point out, the "outsider/insider" feelings. There are two sides to this. The first time I went, I saw a bunch of folks with a string of patches or the like that indicated they had been coming for a long, long time. I'm just insensitive enough I kept interjecting myself into groups until I kinda consider myself part of it. However, that does not excuse us from not making every effort to REALLY, REALLY try to make new people welcome. There is a great tendency to get with your friends and renew your relationships with them, but I would urge all of us to make the extra effort to include new faces. Especially the young ones. Perhaps there may be some additional steps that could be taken to officially encourage this. Maybe some activity at the ice cream social that involves pairing up with randomly drawn names. Norma and I have consistently tried to pick a table at the banquet to sit with people we haven't previously known. I can't remember whether you and Byron were included in the group of Mooneyspace people who got together last year (or was it two years ago) to go eat at the Cowboy Steakhouse one evening. In any event, if anyone has any ideas on how to help this "inclusion" plan, post it, and/or notify Trey. I can assure you that no one I have run across at MAPA has ever indicated a desire to keep anyone out.

[Becca]

Quote: jetdriven

For the record, Don Muncy goes out of his way to be friendly and approachable.  He offered my wife a ride in the car early while I slaved away for 45 minutes to gas up the Mooney , park it, tie it down, put the cover on.  I nearly died!   Thanks buddy!

Just kidding. But we have been focusing on the good ole boys a lot, there are also several like Don who go out of their way to meet people and mix it up  I appreciate that.

 

 

[jetdriven]

"Grass?  I can't land on grass! ... Because it's grass!"

 " Its only 3400 feet long too! "

http://www.pioneerflightmuseum.org/aerodrome/index.html

[Becca]

Quote: jetdriven

"Grass?  I can't land on grass! ... Because it's grass!"

 " Its only 3400 feet long too! "

http://www.pioneerflightmuseum.org/aerodrome/index.html

[Becca]

Also, why isn't the MAPA convention being held here: http://www.hangarhotel.com/gallery1.htm instead of at a hotel in town.  This would be super cool, right on the runway, people coming and going from their planes, social lounges in the hotel, etc.   Probably too expensive.  Though I would pay more for it.

[jetdriven]

I can totally see me and Walter K.  with a beer sitting on the wing, comparing 201s.  Care to join?

[Greg_D]

Don,

I've met you before, I believe at one of Don Maxwell's fly-ins.  As Byron stated, you were very approachable and friendy.  MAPA needs more ambassadors like you.  

And while you may be correct that the "clickish" ones in the organization are the minority, they're also the most active in the group, both online and at the conventions,  and unfortunately they are the "face" of MAPA. That's a failure of leadership!  I sent Trey a note with some very consrtuctive critisim after he emailed and asked if I was a MAPA member.  I never heard back from him, but got an auto-generated mesaage that I had been disenrolled from the mail list.  Antics such as that and not extending any sort of welcome to potential new members speaks volumes about the culture of the organization.  

You've got an uphill battle if you're gojng to change that.  Maybe it's time for new leadership at MAPA.  Just imagine if someone like Jolie Lucas was in charge.

[jetdriven]

.