New to Mooneys, maybe looking to buy?

[concussion962]

Hey all,

I have been a lurker without an account for a bit (since before I got my PPL in 2016), and am finally at the point where I'm ready to start looking to buy. I think based on my mission (range, useful load, occasional IFR in SoCal when its not icing) an M20C/E/F would fit my requirements and be within my price range. That said... I've only so far fallen in love with Mooneys from afar, and haven't been able to fly in one to confirm they're the plane for me. I'd love to get some flight exposure / instruction in a B/C/E to get to learn more about the earlier Mooneys, as well as get familiar with the manual gear - ideally, get 10 hours of instruction in case I find the 'right' plane outside of California to be able to ferry myself.

 

I've currently reached out to Dubios Aviation in Chino (the only feedback I got was that their B is down due to an an audio panel upgrade with no indication as to when it will be back - asked in mid-February), and to Aces High in Long Beach at the recommendation of a friend (but haven't gotten any response) - any leads you guys may have would be greatly appreciated.

 

For the 'buying' side of it, the window shopping is currently focused on C/Es - Fs start to get a bit above my price range, C/Es seem like great value for money (especially with low-to-mid engines, if not a bit mixed on avionics in the under-70k range).

 

All that said, glad to be here!

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Conc….

Great questions.

You are going to find it challenging to rent a Mooney and get instruction in them….

There is an older thread around here listing all of the known Mooneys that can be rented around the world…. Are you interested in traveling to fly a Mooney?  There is an MSC in NJ that offers this service.

There is also a thread around here of all of the Mooney CFIs….

 

One thing to consider….

your insurance company is going to require you to have some dual instruction… and possibly some additional solo time after that…

As a pilot with low hours… expect that you will rent a CFI to ferry the plane back with you… this is where you hire a Mooney specific CFI and get the most out of your money while learning the most about your plane.

 

It is normal for pilots with experience to do this as well….

Mooneys have the speed to cross several states and weather systems in a single flight…

Flying your new2u plane has enough stress with it…. You don’t want to add solo in an unfamiliar plane, in unfamiliar parts of the country, and icing or IMC….

Its better for your health this way…

 

Another thing to consider… is the cost of insurance.  If you have 100 Mooney hours… some money can be saved compared to zero Mooney hours… but, renting a Mooney for 100 hours can use up a lot of money to save on insurance…. 
 

I didn’t think to ask how many hours you have, or what your experience level is… you might want to fill that in… as a renter, I didn’t get enough experience… that is why I bought my first Mooney… an M20C.

PP thoughts only, not a CFI…

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

 

[concussion962]

Carusoam,

Thanks for the warm welcome! I probably should have made a note of my aviation experience in the initial. I have ~200TT and an IR, with about an equal mix between Cessnas and PA-28s in there (including 2 hours of retract/HP). Plan is to get my CPL knocked out either this year or next, depending on how quick I can get the hours. I have done multi-day XCs before and am "aware" of the added stressors, so there is that (from an ADM perspective) - understood entirely why you're making note of that to be aware! I'm also

 

The reason I bring up the training (before buying) is to be able to get the 10 dual from a Mooney instructor either before getting the plane or be able to get the last little bit as a check-out/shake-down flight before ferrying the plane back to Lancaster to get the solo time. Traveling isn't out of the question, but closer to LA/SoCal would be preferred if possible so as to be able to not take *too* much vacation.

 

Either way, thanks for the feedback, I'll be sure to keep it in mind!

[Rwsavory]

My first flight in a Mooney was right-seat the day we picked up our plane after closing, the same day I saw it in person at Maxwell’s. It worked out fine, but I don’t recommend that to everyone. 
 

You might contact Jimmy Garrison at GMax. He sells a lot of Mooneys and knows a lot of people in the biz. https://www.gmaxamericanaircraft.com

[kortopates]

I wouldn't worry about the instruction before purchasing, it's very hard to find rental Mooney's. And lets say you got 10 hrs in the B at Chino, your insurance company is likely going to specify 10+ hrs of dual in your "E" model before you can solo anyway. Plus regardless, even if not, you really don't want to be alone in a plane that new to you with little experience in the Model till you have a chance to get comfortable with the help of a very experienced Mooney instructor.

On the other hand its going to quite easy to get a ride from an another nearby owner. That will enable to you to tell if its a good match as well as try out more than model. So I suggest let folks know what airport you closest too since SOCAL is a huge area and I am sure you'll line up a ride soonest. I'd suggest you check out both a E and mid-body F model. 

[MikeOH]

What Paul says is great advice.

I did, however, fly that very DuBois B model for many hours before I bought my F. In my case, the insurance company did NOT require any transition training or dual of any kind; I picked up my F after the sale closed and flew her home by myself.

Times change and insurance companies may well no longer apply one model experience to another.  Also, to be fair, I had retract time before renting the B, and even more after flying it for several years…way more than 10 hours! 

Best thing would be to contact @Parker_Woodruff and get current insurance advice for YOUR situation.

[concussion962]

Thanks for the feedback Mike and Paul.

To answer the first question, I live up in Lancaster, and fly out of Fox and Edwards - but that doesn't mean I can't find myself in many parts of SoCal for various reasons.

As a slight aside, the reason for wanting to get training-in-type with an experienced Mooney CFI is that for pickup, I may leverage either USAF TPS Graduate friends with CFI/II or an ATP buddy to fly with me for the first few flights - but the folks I have in mind don't necessarily have considerable M20 experience, so getting that instruction beforehand (if possible) would make that plan a bit more flexible to fly with experienced-but-not-Mooney CFIs. 

To Mike's point, from some other online contacts, their feedback was that "Insurance typically sees M20P, and not much beyond that" for time-in-type. Again, it was part of a plan to have a bit more flexibility (with my friends' availabilities) but still be able to have experience with a similar-enough M20 so that between the two of us we'd be able to be safe but also catch any issues.

Of course, if when I go to buy I haven't gotten any of those training opportunities beforehand I would go down the route of finding a CFI who can help me check out and pick up the airplane - trust me when I say that work has instilled the importance of the safe route vs the fast route. 

 

Thanks again, everyone!

[SMeestercpa]

I'll share...I bought my first Mooney in 2020.  It was an 1964 E model purchased just outside of Fresno.  I picked it up with a CFII and we flew it back to Oakdale, doing some air work along the way.   When we got to Oakdale, he had me do five landings, one fast..the rest at the "proper" speed of 70 mph on short final.  To learn the manual gear, I watched a few youtube videos, which helped a lot.  So, with around 5 hours of instruction, i felt pretty good with the plane, but would not take anyone with me until I had around 20 hours in it.  By that time, I felt really comfortable with the Mooney.  I really loved the plane, but after taking more than two people in it a couple of times, I really felt I needed a mid body.  So, sold the E in December of 2022 after putting a 100 hours on it and bought a K model.  The short bodies are a bit more sporty, but the mid bodies are really nice if you are flying with more that two people.  All that means that I would probably recommend a 1967 F model, if you can swing it.  Good luck, the Mooney's are a great airplane.  Btw, I have around 1,200 hours and have owned five different planes.

Edited March 11, 2023 by SMeestercpa

[Parker_Woodruff]

Go for a Mooney demo flight, but don't worry about getting any additional training in one until you purchase.  Won't be worth the money in either insurance premium or checkout...especially if you end up getting a different model than you receive training in.

[glbtrottr]

My first Mooney flight was on the ferry home of the 252 I bought 25 or so years ago. I was living in Manhattan Beach then. My ex at the time said the plane or me- I still have the plane I was based at Hawthorne for a long time- the plane just left Long Beach. I spend a lot of time in Chino, Compton and Brackett. I also have an M20E I’m bringing back from out of state.

You can come along for a ride in my M20K one of these days.

If I’m not mistaken one of the flight schools in Long Beach has a mooney though I forget the type.

Some carriers want time in type, others want model specific - it all depends. Amusingly I just went through this when trying to insure the m20e - I’ve only got about 1500 hours in my m20k.

I know an outstanding Mooney CFI -I/ A&P/ IA and former US Marine that owns a G model and doesn’t post on Mooneyspace. He’s based in Long Beach and May let you fly his G model for instruction or familiarization also. He’s been good ballast for me on occasion, and did a very thorough annual on my K model as well. PM me for contact info.


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[cwaters]

On 3/9/2023 at 8:01 AM, concussion962 said:

I probably should have made a note of my aviation experience in the initial. I have ~200TT and an IR, with about an equal mix between Cessnas and PA-28s in there (including 2 hours of retract/HP). Plan is to get my CPL knocked out either this year or next, depending on how quick I can get the hours. I have done multi-day XCs before and am "aware" of the added stressors, so there is that (from an ADM perspective) - understood entirely why you're making note of that to be aware! I'm also

 

The reason I bring up the training (before buying) is to be able to get the 10 dual from a Mooney instructor either before getting the plane or be able to get the last little bit as a check-out/shake-down flight before ferrying the plane back to Lancaster to get the solo time. Traveling isn't out of the question, but closer to LA/SoCal would be preferred if possible so as to be able to not take *too* much vacation.

 

Either way, thanks for the feedback, I'll be sure to keep it in mind!

a few things of note:

- with 200TT and IR your insurance will be better than with lower hours and no IR (I bought my J at 100TT and no IR) 

- Insurance may not care about your 10hr dual in a mooney, best to talk to an agent about your situation specifically,  and the only real pro to it would be building complex time but only 10 hr or so is not really going to make a difference

- when my insurance gave me the transition training req, they gave CFI req too, my cfi had to have more than xxx hours (i don't recall the exact number but think 500) mooney time 

- the other pro to having a CFI travel with you to bring it back is that the transition training and getting to know your plane is second to none. Ideally you do the long XC back with the CFI to iron out some kinks with plane and then do the regular transition training stuff, Stalls, soft/short field, develop personal min ...

- Having done a 700nm xc to bring my mooney home, FL-VA, i highly recommend not doing it alone. I have also done a few multi day XC (1000nm+) solo after having a few hundred hours in my J and love it but wouldn't think to do that solo in the plane having never flown it before 

 

 

- Every once in a while a J comes along for just over your listed budget and you may be able to swing it, if you can look at early model J as they have all the speed mods from the factory and a mid body gives you some more space will stil being 200hp (so not High Perf) and the electric gear/flaps. The E would be my next recommendation over the C as it has the injected 200hp not the carb 180hp engine. 

- I was able to accomplish everything with my purchase at a distance minus actually signing paperwork and looking at plane and test flight, I was able to test fly, sign and fly 700nm home in 1 day without too much time crunch in Jan with short days. if I'm doing a long XC now i will plan ~1000nm a day and end there because i get tired after 6-7hrs of flying so even if you bought a plane on the east coast its really only a 2 day trip back if you want it to be. But if you have to fly though CO to get home then highly reccomend doing some mnt flying and burn a day exploring 

- I got to spend some time out at edwards a few years ago and there is some good flying out there so a mooney would be wonderful for getting around the area without driving multi hours