Lycoming IO-360-A1A Exhaust

[gwav8or]

Anybody have a lead on a new (or like new) exhaust for a Lyc IO-360-A1A?  The exhaust in my '67 F is toast and the shop that we sent the exhaust to is recommending a new or rebuilt exhaust.  They quoted $3,828 to build a new exhaust using mine as a template.  Is that reasonable?  Are there other sources for a new exhaust that I should look at? 

So, I'm looking for a new or mostly new exhaust for my F.  Just bought this bird in August and was hoping I could go a year or two without fixing anything big like this.  

[carusoam]

Welding shops have been combining together…

Find the remaining shop that does this work… AWI?  Aviation Welding Inc?

It is normal to OH the exhaust system from head to tail replacing each pipe as the perform the ‘OH’…

Compare to the alternative… a new exhaust system from power flow…

Make sure your CO monitor is working… 

Best regards,

-a-

[gwav8or]

13 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Welding shops have been combining together…

Find the remaining shop that does this work… AWI?  Aviation Welding Inc?

It is normal to OH the exhaust system from head to tail replacing each pipe as the perform the ‘OH’…

Compare to the alternative… a new exhaust system from power flow…

Make sure your CO monitor is working… 

Best regards,

-a-

Yeah, I'm pretty sure AWI is who the shop sent the exhaust too.  At almost 4k, I might be better off to go with a PowerFlow, just don't believe there is that much value.

[carusoam]

PF has been getting better over the years…

Performance claims only apply to older planes with older exhaust systems…

Some of the more recent ones had a quirky tail pipe that was not very aerodynamic…

Everything seems to be aligned properly now…

There are some maintenance / lubrication procedures worth knowing about…

Some people don’t appreciate the PF system as much as others…

Best regards,

-a-

[gwav8or]

Yeah, I had PF on my Cherokee 140.  Made a big difference there.   But I wouldn't think there'd be much difference on the Mooney. Not a few AMUs worth anyway.

[47U]

1 hour ago, gwav8or said:

So, I'm looking for a new or mostly new exhaust for my F.

I had Knisley in Loomis, CA, build a new PMA exhaust for my C last summer.  It wasn’t cheap at about 2.5 amu, but the quality is excellent.  I got rid of the old ball-joint riser connections and the tailpipe is tucked up tight to the tailpipe cavity.  The new muffler is about an inch larger in diameter than the old muffler, which complicated my ducting connections.  I also have the original starter and generator which also take up more room.  But, since you don’t have carb heat, I don’t think you will have any of those issues.

Knisley was pretty busy, it was about 3-4 weeks, I think, to manufacture.  I was also doing cylinder work, so I wasn’t pressuring them to get finished up.  And I’m local to them so there wasn’t any shipping charges.

https://knisleyexhaust.com/

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, gwav8or said:

Anybody have a lead on a new (or like new) exhaust for a Lyc IO-360-A1A?  The exhaust in my '67 F is toast and the shop that we sent the exhaust to is recommending a new or rebuilt exhaust.  They quoted $3,828 to build a new exhaust using mine as a template.  Is that reasonable?  Are there other sources for a new exhaust that I should look at? 

So, I'm looking for a new or mostly new exhaust for my F.  Just bought this bird in August and was hoping I could go a year or two without fixing anything big like this.  

These people usually have a good inventory of new systems and parts.

http://aircraftexhaust.com/nav.cfm?cat=11&subcat=67&as_id=8&mg_id=74&display=modelgroup

[gwav8or]

9 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

These people usually have a good inventory of new systems and parts.

http://aircraftexhaust.com/nav.cfm?cat=11&subcat=67&as_id=8&mg_id=74&display=modelgroup

Thank you, I will give them a shout.

[A64Pilot]

There is also a company in Canada that does beautiful work, Acorn welding maybe?

Looked it up, yeah it’s Acorn.

Hartzell owns them now? Joe Brown is buying everything it seems.

[Shadrach]

7 hours ago, gwav8or said:

Anybody have a lead on a new (or like new) exhaust for a Lyc IO-360-A1A?  The exhaust in my '67 F is toast and the shop that we sent the exhaust to is recommending a new or rebuilt exhaust.  They quoted $3,828 to build a new exhaust using mine as a template.  Is that reasonable?  Are there other sources for a new exhaust that I should look at? 

So, I'm looking for a new or mostly new exhaust for my F.  Just bought this bird in August and was hoping I could go a year or two without fixing anything big like this.  

Wow, things have changed. The exhaust for my A1A was overhauled by Dawley in 2006 for ~$600.

[gwav8or]

10 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Wow, things have changed. The exhaust for my A1A was overhauled by Dawley in 2006 for ~$600.

Apparently mine is past overhaul and is being rebuilt. So, I'll have an essentially new exhaust that will hopefully last for years.

[Ragsf15e]

6 hours ago, gwav8or said:

Apparently mine is past overhaul and is being rebuilt. So, I'll have an essentially new exhaust that will hopefully last for years.

Worth checking around because the welding places generally use the term “overhaul” and “rebuilt” interchangeably.  Either way, it’s essentially new.

[Shadrach]

47 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Worth checking around because the welding places generally use the term “overhaul” and “rebuilt” interchangeably.  Either way, it’s essentially new.

Yup. As I recall, my overhauled exhaust system looked brand new. I don’t recall of they did an exchange or returned my original. Either way, it was visually indistinguishable from new.

[67 m20F chump]

Dowley was the shop that I always used.  I hear he retired.  

[A64Pilot]

21 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Wow, things have changed. The exhaust for my A1A was overhauled by Dawley in 2006 for ~$600.

Yes things have changed, average house when I was born sold for, wait for it … $12,000.

[Shadrach]

5 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Yes things have changed, average house when I was born sold for, wait for it … $12,000.

Yes well 2006 was not that long ago. Most things have become more expensive but 750% delta is quite a bit in just 16 years. Very few things, aviation related or otherwise, have seen that kind of increase.

[A64Pilot]

10 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Yes well 2006 was not that long ago. Most things have become more expensive but 750% delta is quite a bit in just 16 years. Very few things, aviation related or otherwise, have seen that kind of increase.

I’ll agree to that, but welcome to being old, old is when you begin to think 17 years ago wasn’t that long ago.

A 30 yr old thinks it was forever ago as they were 13 then.

A lot of aviation pricing is in my opinion diminishing demand, a shop that used to do one a day is now turning out two a week, and all their bills have increased.

In today’s reality just be proud it’s available, forget about the price, I’m still waiting for my little $1,000 spring that I paid for six months ago.

I bet in 2006 that spring was $100 and people thought it over priced.

Still 1958 house $12,000

2022 house $350,000

That's what, 2,900%?

Not the same house though just what people were buying

[LBM]

On 12/27/2022 at 1:40 PM, gwav8or said:

Anybody have a lead on a new (or like new) exhaust for a Lyc IO-360-A1A?  The exhaust in my '67 F is toast and the shop that we sent the exhaust to is recommending a new or rebuilt exhaust.  They quoted $3,828 to build a new exhaust using mine as a template.  Is that reasonable?  Are there other sources for a new exhaust that I should look at? 

So, I'm looking for a new or mostly new exhaust for my F.  Just bought this bird in August and was hoping I could go a year or two without fixing anything big like this.  

Enough real estate, back to aviation.

I was faced with the same situation as the OP when the pre-buy for my E found the exhaust needed repair or replace.  last summer.  Shop (Oasis, at  KBDH) recommended either replace with Powerflow or rebuild at Aerospace Welding in MSP (https://awi-ami.com/aircraft/mooney.html).

I couldn’t convince myself the extra cost of the PF was justified.  Went with the rebuild, for approx same price as OP was quoted.  They delivered on schedule and budget quoted and I am totally satisfied.

 

[Will.iam]

When i was shopping for a mooney one of the worries i had was the increase costs of a turbo until i read an article that OH of a NA exhaust is about the same price so the delta expense between turbo and na wasn’t as big as i first thought. What is the usual TBO of an NA exhaust? 

[A64Pilot]

3 hours ago, Will.iam said:

When i was shopping for a mooney one of the worries i had was the increase costs of a turbo until i read an article that OH of a NA exhaust is about the same price so the delta expense between turbo and na wasn’t as big as i first thought. What is the usual TBO of an NA exhaust? 

I replaced my original 1946 exhaust on my 140 last year, but that’s an anomaly, it’s just straight pipes. Exhausts last longer than mufflers. I’ve never had to replace an exhaust except for the 140, mufflers yes, but oldest hour wise airplane I’ve owned was about 2500 hours or so and 40 years old, my J in fact.

140’s exhaust was 75 yrs old and maybe 5,000 hours and was repairable, the end flange was worn through.

Turbo exhausts don’t last nearly as long I don’t think and you have he turbo, wastegate etc and additional wear on the engine.

Several of the after market exhaust seem to better quality than the original, and some are much better than others. I believe a good after market exhaust will last much longer than an engine, easily. Others will disagree of course, it may be that LOP is harder on exhaust due to higher heat, or it may be it’s not enough to matter, but I do know people who run engines hard go through exhaust quicker than those who don’t.

Design wise I’m quite impressed with my J’s exhaust, many aircraft exhaust pay no attention to scavenging and equal length tubes etc, but the J’s exhaust seems well thought out. I don’t know about other models.

[Dale Logsdon]

On 12/27/2022 at 12:40 PM, gwav8or said:

Anybody have a lead on a new (or like new) exhaust for a Lyc IO-360-A1A?  The exhaust in my '67 F is toast and the shop that we sent the exhaust to is recommending a new or rebuilt exhaust.  They quoted $3,828 to build a new exhaust using mine as a template.  Is that reasonable?  Are there other sources for a new exhaust that I should look at? 

So, I'm looking for a new or mostly new exhaust for my F.  Just bought this bird in August and was hoping I could go a year or two without fixing anything big like this.  

 

[Dale Logsdon]

I have a good used exhaust system for an IO360 Mooney if you're still interested.

[gwav8or]

17 minutes ago, Dale Logsdon said:

I have a good used exhaust system for an IO360 Mooney if you're still interested.

I really appreciate it, but I already ordered a rebuilt exhaust. 

[Mcstealth]

On 12/28/2022 at 6:22 PM, A64Pilot said:

 

Still 1958 house $12,000

2022 house $350,000

That's what, 2,900%?

291666666%

sorry. Couldn't resist. 

[bdjohn4]

I’ve got one I don’t need. Good condition. DM me