Aircraft jacking using a weighted tail stand Vs using a cable winch

[Shadrach]

17 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

‘Used to be pretty common for people to hang on Cessna horizontals to lift the nose and turn it tight, but then horizontal spars were sometimes broken and you don’t see that practice as much anymore.

My default method for positioning a 172 was to throw one arm over the fuselage just ahead of the vertical stab. I could lift the nose and walk the airplane around on two wheels in the position. Never saw the horizontal stab method.

[A64Pilot]

5 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

My default method for positioning a 172 was to throw one arm over the fuselage just ahead of the vertical stab. I could lift the nose and walk the airplane around on two wheels in the position. Never saw the horizontal stab method.

That way doesn’t break things and I believe became the alternate method. 

There have been many, many ribs and even some spars broken, it’s still not uncommon to see Cessna’s with broken nose ribs, often you can see it visually, a crease in the skin right where the nose rib attaches to the spar, it’s creased because the nose rib is broken loose from the spar, allowing it to bend downward when excessive weight is put on it and the skin is creased.

I assume people don’t do that with a Mooney because the nose is so heavy on a Mooney, I weigh 242 as of yesterday, but using your method I can’t raise the nose on my J model.

[Shadrach]

3 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

That way doesn’t break things and I believe became the alternate method. 

There have been many, many ribs and even some spars broken, it’s still not uncommon to see Cessna’s with broken nose ribs, often you can see it visually, a crease in the skin right where the nose rib attaches to the spar, it’s creased because the nose rib is broken loose from the spar, allowing it to bend downward when excessive weight is put on it and the skin is creased.

I assume people don’t do that with a Mooney because the nose is so heavy on a Mooney, I weigh 242 as of yesterday, but using your method I can’t raise the nose on my J model.

I just confirmed that I can’t lift my bird by the tail either. I can get close but not enough to lift the wheel. So I was mistaken in my memory of lifting the nose. I may have been thinking about when I had the engine off. My bird did not require any weight at the front to keep it off the tail but surely it was light.

[PT20J]

For those that think always following manufacturers recommendations is a good idea, look up an old Cessna 172 maintenance manual and note that it said to push down on the front spar of the horizontal stabilizer to maneuver the airplane if no tow bar was available. 

[Jerry Pressley]

First time I had to work on the gear I had the tail tied to a tiedown in the concrete at Asheville NC.  The tiedown pulled out and since the lh gear was up the lh wing hit just outboard if the inboard rib. It  landed on a cinder block thus putting a hole in the fuel tank.  At time Mooney approved a patch and supplied a piece of heat treated skin. Was a 63 C model that is still flying now in Texas with that patch.

[EricJ]

9 hours ago, PT20J said:

For those that think always following manufacturers recommendations is a good idea, look up an old Cessna 172 maintenance manual and note that it said to push down on the front spar of the horizontal stabilizer to maneuver the airplane if no tow bar was available. 

When I was a lineboy in the 70s  we did this all the time to move airplanes around in tight spaces.     I didn't learn until way later that that had become unacceptable practice.    Bummer,  because it's really easy and effective.   

[MikeOH]

10 minutes ago, EricJ said:

When I was a lineboy in the 70s  we did this all the time to move airplanes around in tight spaces.     I didn't learn until way later that that had become unacceptable practice.    Bummer,  because it's really easy and effective.   

Yuup.  That was how I was taught to move Cessnas back in the day!

[Hank]

28 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

Yuup.  That was how I was taught to move Cessnas back in the day!

Me too. Way back in 2006 . . . .    

[PT20J]

49 minutes ago, Hank said:

Me too. Way back in 2006 . . . .    

When I got tired of engineering and spent a summer flight instructing in Anchorage in 1985, the line boys at AeroTech used sit on the horizontal stabilizer and "walk" the 172's around the ramp with their feet. They were really fast.

 

[ragedracer1977]

On 11/5/2022 at 5:58 PM, A64Pilot said:

I use an engine hoist and soft straps to lift the nose, only way you can jack a J model and comply with Mooney instructions that I can figure is soft straps lifting on the engine mount.

Mooney must have a reason to write that SI

I’ve read the SB forwards and backwards. I can’t find where Mooney said you can’t use the tail tie down.  It says it’s not recommended to use it to pull the nose off the ground during the jacking process.  
 

there’s 2 things there.

#1 it’s a recommendation. Compare and contrast that to the other instructions in the SB that say DO NOT.  

#2, I believe they’re saying please don’t do what the OP is asking. Don’t jack the mains and then use a come along to pull the tail down. 
 

since it’s a recommendation, they’re actually saying it’s ok to do, but use caution.  Further, if you’re doing it, secure the tail first. Don’t pull on it after the fact….

 If they didn’t want you using it, they would have said DO NOT.

Further, your method 100% does not comply with the SB. show me where it says to use an engine hoist with a strap on stuff they didn’t even mention…

Edited November 10, 2022 by ragedracer1977

[Pinecone]

For moving Cessnas around, the deal was, push down on the SPAR, right nest to the fuselage.

Too many people pushed down on the leading edge, leading to damage

 

[EricJ]

21 hours ago, PT20J said:

When I got tired of engineering and spent a summer flight instructing in Anchorage in 1985, the line boys at AeroTech used sit on the horizontal stabilizer and "walk" the 172's around the ramp with their feet. They were really fast.

 

That's what we did.    We had a couple 172s at A&P school and that suggestion didn't go over well.    "Would you do that with your own airplane?"    I was like,  "Yes, used to do it all the time."

The technique seems to have fallen out of favor over the years,  whether it is really merited or not.

[A64Pilot]

Playing semantics.

You can’t mandate anything with an SB to US part 91 aircraft.

Believe what you please, it’s the internet