GeeBee Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 The FAA has. awarded GAMI an STC for 100 unleaded. Their initial AML list is primarily the aircraft in the Embry Riddle fleet, but they claim it will be expanded quickly. They also say it is easy to produce, AVFuels will be an initial producer, it will be 60 to 90 cents more per gallon. Per the STC is is totally mixable at any ratio with 100LL making switch over in bulk tanks easy. Here is George Braly and Tim Roehl explaining the product. https://www.avweb.com/multimedia/airventure-2021-gami-g100-fuel-in-detail/?MailingID=673&utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Avidyne%2C+Daedalean+To+Develop+AI-Based+Avionics+Vision+Systems%2C+EAA+Launches+AeroEducate&utm_campaign=Avidyne%2C+Daedalean+To+Develop+AI-Based+Avionics+Vision+Systems%2C+EAA+Launches+AeroEducate+-+THURSDAY%2C+July+29%2C+2021 Quote
Raptor05121 Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 I thought the main selling feature to get people on board was it was supposed to be cheaper because it can be piped? What happened to 94UL, where it was consistently cheaper? Quote
Niko182 Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 60 to 90 cents adds up pretty quickly. Odd since if its easy to produce, why is it more? Quote
Mooney Dog Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 In aviation, is anything ever going to be cheaper than what its replacing? Oh well at least there's a "solution" to the 100LL "issue" now. Now if only the mooney could get mogas... 1 Quote
carusoam Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 The STC comes in two directions…. Engines and airframes… The IO550 has 100 (no LL) Octane fuel listed in the M20R POH… Wondering how much testing will be required… Best regards, -a- Quote
toto Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 The STC thing is confusing to me. So you roll up to the pump, put a few gallons of this stuff in the plane, and then you're safe to fly but unairworthy? Unless you purchase the STC and have a log entry? 2 Quote
Hank Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 13 minutes ago, Raptor05121 said: I thought the main selling feature to get people on board was it was supposed to be cheaper because it can be piped? What happened to 94UL, where it was consistently cheaper? The FAA happened. When was the last time they took action that didn't coast Owners and operators? Quote
carusoam Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 25 minutes ago, toto said: The STC thing is confusing to me. So you roll up to the pump, put a few gallons of this stuff in the plane, and then you're safe to fly but unairworthy? Unless you purchase the STC and have a log entry? What makes you know that it is safe to fly? Sounds like you think the government doesn’t want you to have low cost fuel… Lets look at what an STC does… The STC should be a document that verifies that this fuel is safe to put in your plane… and use with your engine… actual documented tests usually accompany the STC… And you can still be skeptical after that… There have been a few oils in the recent past that were STC’d and have caused expensive problems for some people… We have a few rubber seals and sealant that is very willing to absorb new organic chemicals… when rubber absorbs solvents… they expand and stop working as expected… sealant can lose contact with the metal and slough off over time… Don’t be in a rush to use something that can cost you an OH or a tank reseal… If the STC isn’t worth the electronic document it is displayed on… don’t be in a rush to put a few gallons in your tank… let somebody else be the guinea pig… The savings won’t cover the costs… Trust but verify - Mr. Reagan Fortunately, the Gami folks know this area of technology… Many people have sealed tanks like Mooneys do… we are not alone… PP thoughts only, not a fuel chemist… Best regards, -a- Quote
MikeOH Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 22 minutes ago, Hank said: The FAA happened. When was the last time they took action that didn't coast Owners and operators? ^^^ THIS ^^^ Because the lead from GA is just such an overwhelming massive cause of pollution (massive sarcasm) we 'rich airplane owners' are now going be forced to pay $1 more a gallon. Not yet, but you watch, they will phase out 100LL and then we'll have no choice once it's proven across the fleet. Quote
carusoam Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 How special is the GAMI 100UL? What keeps other suppliers from doing the same or something similar? We need at least two players to make some level of price competition… Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
toto Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, carusoam said: What makes you know that it is safe to fly? I really meant only to comment on the airworthiness thing. Apparently the fake stuff can be mixed with 100LL in any ratio, so at the very least you aren’t violating manufacturer’s guidelines by putting a couple of gallons in. But having to have an STC is interesting for a drop-in replacement. Quote
Ragsf15e Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 Until the AML is huge, I don’t see FBOs mixing it into 100LL and risking fueling an airplane not approved for it. Liability could be huge for that. Quote
jlunseth Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 Yeah, haven't we done this with E85. Supposed to be cheaper by the gallon, but turns out the mileage is ugly so you wind up paying less per gallon for the privilege of filling your tank more often because you run out faster. Net, you lose. GAMI, on the other hand, does good work and puts out good stuff that is well thought through. Maybe this will work. I guess we will see. First they need to get it distributed. 2 Quote
carusoam Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 Hmmmmmm…. This brings up another challenge that we have seen in the past… The cost of machinery to handle different grades of av gas…. My home drome has two tanks…. Jet fuel and 100LL… Probably would need another tank and pump system…? Truck for delivery around the airport… Truck for delivering to the airport? Hopefully… there is some saving when going away from lead chemistry… that stuff isn’t low cost… Best regards, -a- Quote
ragedracer1977 Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 Just to point out, I think the 60-90 cents is at the manufacturing level. I think it's going to be more like $2 to us... 1 1 Quote
carusoam Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 Is there different energy per pound to go with that extra weight? Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
Niko182 Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 23 minutes ago, carusoam said: Is there different energy per pound to go with that extra weight? Best regards, -a- Yes. I believe it had a higher energy output. Was stated somewhere on beechtalk. 1 Quote
carusoam Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 Q&As from Gami site… https://gami.com/g100ul/GAMI_Q_and_A.pdf -a- 2 1 Quote
PT20J Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 49 minutes ago, carusoam said: Is there different energy per pound to go with that extra weight? Best regards, -a- Supposed to be 1% higher energy density. 2 Quote
PT20J Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 1 hour ago, MikeOH said: ^^^ THIS ^^^ Because the lead from GA is just such an overwhelming massive cause of pollution (massive sarcasm) we 'rich airplane owners' are now going be forced to pay $1 more a gallon. Not yet, but you watch, they will phase out 100LL and then we'll have no choice once it's proven across the fleet. The problem is that the lead pollution is concentrated around GA airports many of which are surrounded by residential areas. Quote
carusoam Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 Removing the lead from the system is starting to look pretty good… Less lead sludge in the oil pan… No lead balls in the lower spark plugs… No detonation even at 41+” of MAP…. Not sure if I will ever see MAP go above 31”in my NA IO550… Does Embry Riddle have any Mooneys anymore? ERAU has been testing this fuel in their fleet of planes for years… It would be nice to hear about the Mooney experience… not being any additional issues related to seals and sealants… Best regards, -a- Quote
PT20J Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 2 hours ago, Hank said: The FAA happened. When was the last time they took action that didn't coast Owners and operators? NORSEE certifications Removing the 6 hours of instrument flight from the 6 month currency requirements. Approving certain AATDs for solo instrument currency logging. Extending 3rd class medical certificates to 3 years for younger pilots. Skip 2 Quote
toto Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 1 minute ago, PT20J said: Extending 3rd class medical certificates to 3 years for younger pilots. Five.. Quote
PT20J Posted July 30, 2021 Report Posted July 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, toto said: Five.. You’re right — my bad Quote
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