Flew a new DA-40NG

[Tim Jodice]

This is my opinion having never flown a DA40 before.

I think it is a awesome flying airplane. Center stick connected with push rods is incredibly tight, better than my J. Maybe because it is new and had like 150TT? I have never flown a brand new Mooney but I would think any push rod system would have absolutely no play by design. 

It has great control harmony. I used to think Bonanzas were the best. Obviously that is very subjective. Trimmed properly it holds a 45 degree bank with no input.

It is hard to stall, you can hold the stick all the way back stall horn blaring airframe shaking and you still have aileron control.

We didn't do spins but he said if you put it in one then simply let go of the controls it will come out of the spin on it own. I can see why they have the best safety stats of piston singles.

Landed is very predictable and the engine makes alot of drag at idle.

Visibility is amazing, greenhouse effect is not. It is extremely quiet at any point in flight, so quiet that the vents are noticeable when opened. I found the seat comfortable however I was only in the air for about 30 min. 

Avionics are the industry standard G1000. I didn't spend much time playing with it. I was all about learning the airplane stick (literally) and rudder flying and the engine. 

Now the engine. It is as they say, super quiet and smooth. Almost turboprop smooth and smoother than any continental/lycoming I have flown.

It was 94 degrees and humid on the ground so as expected takeoff and climb performance didn't feel all that impressive however we didn't do a max performance take off or hold VY in the climb.. Cruise was better than book 148-150 TAS according to the G1000 burning 7.2 GPH. 

Starting at $520K it is one of the least expensive piston singles available. 

I know there are a few members on here that used to own a DA40 I would love to hear your opinion of how the airplane flys.

[milotron]

Hi, I operated and older gas version for a couple of years.

I would put it in the trainer category. It was predictable and safe, but ultimately not suited for what I needed and moved to a M20K.  I felt the G1000 was way too much capability for what the plane could offer in terms of capability. The big wings kicked it around a lot in the wind and rough IFR.  The view was awesome though, but got very hot quickly, and the big vents up front let a lot of noise in also. The control stick was nice but was always in the way for ipad or kneeboard ( or maps at the time ) usage.

I was not an equity partner in that endeavour and was glad to move on to Mooney land for what I was using that aircraft for.

It sounds like your was quicker than what I was flying. It topped out around 140 or so and had the upgraded exhaust.

[philiplane]

I have a fair amount of time in DA20 & DA40 Diamonds. They are a great little plane, low maintenance, great speed for the HP, handle very nicely, and are one of the best bargains in the market today. It's also the fastest and most efficient overall four place 180 HP plane there is. Even compared to an M20C.

[Tim Jodice]

12 minutes ago, milotron said:

I felt the G1000 was way too much capability for what the plane could offer in terms of capability

I agree. I wonder if brand new airplanes without a G1000 would be desirable.

[aviatoreb]

I also owned a IO360 DA40 - steam gauge so pre G1000 and also without autopilot (a rare bird - it was a former Embry Riddle trainer).  I loved it for what it was.  It was a really fun trainer.  It its forgiving like a Cessna 172 but quite a bit faster than a 172.

Thoughts on things you said.

-"Trimmed properly it holds a 45 degree bank with no input." that is called dynamic stability.  That is just the nature of how the stability was designed.  There are pros and cons with having it that way but it is a nice property for a trainer.

-center stick - it is lots and lots of fun.  But in the end I preferred not to have center stick.  For one its a bit annoying with a passenger to present a stick in the middle of your wife your young children's legs when they don't want to fly or you don't want them to interfere in a tough landing.  The worst part of the stick is in cross wind landings it is kind of hard to do a good cross wind cross control landing since it is hard to know exactly that you have separated the axis.  My cross wind landings improved dramatically when I switched to the more traditional yoke of a mooney - drop a wing into the wind and opposite rudder.

-some of the feeling of nimble and positive tight control is simply the cam.  The size of the cam is like a gear - how much movement of the yoke converts to how much movement of the actual control surface.  It is closer to 1:1 in a da40.  That gives the feeling of tighter controls but the mooney controls are more like a steady Audi drive like a road car - better for more cross country or intense ifr.

-the good power to weight ratio and lighter wing loading gives the da40 a feeling of a quick climb like an elevator. Its nice.

-my da40 flew at upper 140's and that was without wheel pants which I did not have.  I had power flow exhaust.

-that great visibility canopy is tons of fun, but it is crazy hot in the summer and also even if it s cool and you are on a more serious cross country leaves you kinda burnt. I really welcomed an actual ceiling when I got the mooney.  To hide under and rest my eyes at altitude.

-if you had a mt prop that probably accounts for a certain large fraction of the smooth feeling pos the engine.  My Mooney M20K rocket got much much smoother - turbine smooth - when I got the 4 blade mt prop I have now.

-My m20K is a much better cross country machine   And still fun to fly - I flew for 45 minutes yesterday in circles - see the 2021 pictures section.  Its more like going on a drive in an Audi than in a Miata.  Both are nice.  But for cross country - M20K all the way.  

-That comfortable seat - for 30 min - for 3 hours - it is a pain in the butt - literally.  The angle doesn't move.  It is built in and hard.  Go to the diamond website diamondaviators.net.   people complain about the seats.

-it has the safest record in single piston ga.  Bar none . forget the parachute.  Da40 has a better safety record than any airplane with or without parachute.

-Now he is a major warning as to warning why not to buy a Diamond.  That company is a major pain in the neck.  As far as getting parts. and keeping the bird flying.  Keeping it up to date - everything goes through them and everything is unmarked in cost a lot - and not always available. Get ready to spell aog.

 

 

[steingar]

I think the DA20 was the trainer, two seater and you couldn't ever fly it IFR.  The DA40 is the four place version, moves at Skylane speeds which isn't the world's best thing for a trainer.  Diamonds have an outstanding safety record too.

[Tim Jodice]

11 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

-"Trimmed properly it holds a 45 degree bank with no input." that is called dynamic stability.  That is just the nature of how the stability was designed.  There are pros and cons with having it that way but it is a nice property for a trainer.

I can see the pros but what are the cons of that design? Aiplanes that I have flown all (especially Bonanzas) seem to want to roll over if you put them in a 45 and let go. 

For those of you un familiar with a DA40 there are no springs whatsoever.  The rudder/aileron are not interconnected. Polar opposite of Cirrus. I think it is impressive that they are as stable are they are naturally.

I could see the problem with a center stick for passengers. It's to bad you can't remove the right side stick.

[McMooney]

took my ppl checkride in a diamond, love those planes.   

Visibility is amazing.

Entry and Exit is easy.

big wings make it a bit bumpy and also give a whole new meaning to the term "FLOAT".  seriously, after flying a diamond you just can't understand why people complain about mooneys floating or being to slick to slow down.

wish they had a bigger engine and maybe a side stick.

 

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, Tim Jodice said:

I can see the pros but what are the cons of that design? Aiplanes that I have flown all (especially Bonanzas) seem to want to roll over if you put them in a 45 and let go. 

For those of you un familiar with a DA40 there are no springs whatsoever.  The rudder/aileron are not interconnected. Polar opposite of Cirrus. I think it is impressive that they are as stable are they are naturally.

I could see the problem with a center stick for passengers. It's to bad you can't remove the right side stick.

DA40 is a terrific airplane.  Mooney is a terrific airplane.  They are different and each has different strengths.

[aviatoreb]

Just now, McMooney said:

took my ppl checkride in a diamond, love those planes.   

Visibility is amazing.

Entry and Exit is easy.

big wings make it a bit bumpy and also give a whole new meaning to the term "FLOAT".  seriously, after flying a diamond you just can't understand why people complain about mooneys floating or being to slick to slow down.

wish they had a bigger engine and maybe a side stick.

 

The bigger engine DA40 is the ... DA50.

If I had lots of money, I could see going DA62 for reasons of it seems like an amazing modern twin.

For a more advanced pilot, I would sooner a M20E than a DA40.  And panel.  I would sooner a G3x plus GFC500 than a G1000.

For a beginner pilot I would sooner a DA40 vs a M20E but not by a wide margin.

I feel the DA40 was a terrific stepping stone to my rocket.  I had 350 hours and my instrument in the DA40.  All hand flying no autopilot.

Yeah DA40 floats even more than M20 so you really need to learn adherence to speeds.

[Tim Jodice]

More power would be great. a DA50 is a bigger much more expensive airplane. Keep the DA40 airplane and add a 260HP IO-540 like piper did starting with the O-360 powered Archer and turning it into the O-540 powered Dakota using the same airframe.

[aviatoreb]

33 minutes ago, Tim Jodice said:

More power would be great. a DA50 is a bigger much more expensive airplane. Keep the DA40 airplane and add a 260HP IO-540 like piper did starting with the O-360 powered Archer and turning it into the O-540 powered Dakota using the same airframe.

I would guess a DA40 would nicely take a 210hp TSIO360.  I have my doubts that the airframe is good for 260hp but perhaps the airframe could be beefed up?

But then forget the DA40 - you are describing EXACTLY the new pipistrel panthera - that's what you want! 260hp IO540, retract, cruises >200kts.  Looks like a DA40 but sleeker and with retract.

https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/aircraft/cruising/panthera/

[gsxrpilot]

1 minute ago, aviatoreb said:

I would guess a DA40 would nicely take a 210hp TSIO360.  I have my doubts that the airframe is good for 260hp but perhaps the airframe could be beefed up?

But then forget the DA40 - you are describing EXACTLY the new pipistrel panthera - that's what you want! 260hp IO540, retract, cruises >200kts.  Looks like a DA40 but sleeker and with retract.

https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/aircraft/cruising/panthera/

I'd love to take one of these up for a flight.

[Tim Jodice]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'd love to take one of these up for a flight.

It was at SNF. It looks awesome in person.

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'd love to take one of these up for a flight.

I don't want to take one up for a flight.  I don't think I can afford the obvious consequences.  hahah...

[Ibra]

DA40NG is nice aircraft and very well behaved, I stall it for fun from 7000ft to 1000ft once to make a point, 50kts & x000fpm all the way, even with power it goes down wings level, flies nicely in steep banks, good visibility, modern equipment, very efficient, highly capable in crosswinds (flew it few times when too x-windy to bimble in M20J), also fly it when taking an MTB or when taking baby (3rd door access and low noise for comfort)

The drawback it’s fixed gear and too slow when you get spoiled by the Mooneys, also it hate rain on it’s wings for takeoff, ice on wing & engine but can cope with light IMC and according to a friend you better stay away from lightnings in it 

I had loss of power down to 25% during training, operator got new engine and nothing come back from DA on old engine appart from injector “bad behaviour” probably due to JetA impurities but they come back 2 years after with SB to change injectors every 900h, but one should be able to fly one engine off to the ground and walk away...

I am looking to try DA50 although disappointed by the specs, but at least some competition in GA to Cirrus is healthy, still thinking nothing will replace M20J other than a shinny Ovation !

Edited April 19, 2021 by Ibra

[aviatoreb]

Oh - I forgot one of the major things why I walked away from Diamond.  The DA40s corrode in a very nasty way.  If you think like I did that a composite airplane can't corroded, then you don't know what I didn't know.

To be IFR certified they must be able to wick electricity.  To do that there is an embedded layer of metal mesh under the carbon in the wings through the whole thing.  Then Diamond went cheap and there are standard steel hardware, screws, to hold parts in there which gives a conduit for corrosion into that embedded mesh.  Which does and will corrode and when it does it causes bubbling in odd and hard to get to places in the wing.  The fix is annoying - it is called "scarfing" - lovely word.  You scrape away material to get at the embedded metal mesh.  Remove mesh, and then build back the wing.  Ask me how I know.  Well my airplane had early stages - I sold it and the buyer knew what they were getting into and it was priced accordingly. Sad story my old plane is no more - suffered an unrelated hard landing at the school that purchased it from me - no one hurt happily.

From my browsing diamond aviators.net a lot of da40s eventually suffer this "inconvenience".

E

[carusoam]

Take the same budget... and compare to a pre-flown Long Body Mooney...

Much of the description given is very similar to the LB... except the yoke part... 

1) Smooth

2) quiet

3) powerful

4) The O was a full generation newer than the M20J... and just got better in obvious ways...

5) The coolest thing about the O... it is very similar to the J... you just get more Mooney..!

Best regards,

-a-

[A64Pilot]

Sticks are for aircraft that Maneuver often, not the best thing for a cruising aircraft.

‘I’m very surprised you didn’t like a stick for crosswind landings, I believe it’s due to not having a lot of stick time. About 80% of my flight time is in aircraft with sticks and I prefer them, but sticks have limitations, they are best for single seat and tandem seat aircraft, not so much for side to side seating, OK for aircraft with two doors, but not for a single door aircraft that is side by side, Imagine having to climb over a stick to get into a Mooney

Piper built a stick controlled side by side aircraft for one year, in 1946. It was called a Clipper. Uncommon as they were only built for the one year, but they did a good job of highlighting why sticks aren’t always the best choice.

‘There have been aircraft that were meant to maneuver with yokes of course and they performed well, Lockheed’s P-38 is an example, so it’s what you get used to, but a yoke is just so much more practical for a side by side GA airplane. 

[reza229299]

Not much flies like the DA40, it's an absolute joy to operate. Nowhere near as fast as a Mooney and the bubble canopy gets hot but I love them.

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard reza...

Is there a DiamondSpace for their followers?

Just wondering...

Best regards,

-a-