IA’s that have their ATP.

[MB65E]

I was recently asked how many ATP’s have their Inspection Authorization. Doing research I could find the number of current IA’s, and current ATPs. However, the data bases didn’t cross reference to produce a valid number.

It’s kinda funny, several of the IA’s that I know have their ATPs. Although when reviewing the data, I bet the number is pretty small. 
Anyone know a way to pull the data with out cross referencing manually? 

Thanks! 
-Matt
 

 

[201Steve]

Curious why you’re looking into this? I would think rare, since they are totally different lines of work. Like a doctor that’s also a lawyer. 

[Culver LFA]

I know several ATPs that are also A&P IA, I can think of 4 people right away.

[MB65E]

Just wondering. Doing both was a goal of mine. It was a challenge. I couldn’t find the answer directly so I thought I’d reach to the community. I thought I could grab the info off the registry but unable. My Dad actually asked me.

-Matt

[201Steve]

10 minutes ago, MB65E said:

Just wondering. Doing both was a goal of mine. It was a challenge. I couldn’t find the answer directly so I thought I’d reach to the community. I thought I could grab the info off the registry but unable. My Dad actually asked me.

-Matt

Similar goal of mine. I’m not ATP and have no intention, but would like to get AP eventual IA if I can figure out how to amass 2,000 hours practical as a run of the mill owner/Pilot with a full time job. Ha. 

[Will.iam]

4 hours ago, 201Steve said:

Similar goal of mine. I’m not ATP and have no intention, but would like to get AP eventual IA if I can figure out how to amass 2,000 hours practical as a run of the mill owner/Pilot with a full time job. Ha. 

Just build an RV-7 and you will have the hours but then taking the written exam is no walk in the park. You could even sell the RV-7 to pay you for you time. 

[N201MKTurbo]

I just like taking tests...

[ragedracer1977]

7 hours ago, 201Steve said:

Similar goal of mine. I’m not ATP and have no intention, but would like to get AP eventual IA if I can figure out how to amass 2,000 hours practical as a run of the mill owner/Pilot with a full time job. Ha. 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.  Unless you go to school, you need 4800 hours.  30 months x 160 hours = 4800

 

[Hank]

12 hours ago, 201Steve said:

Similar goal of mine. I’m not ATP and have no intention, but would like to get AP eventual IA if I can figure out how to amass 2,000 hours practical as a run of the mill owner/Pilot with a full time job. Ha. 

I thought it was 2000 hours for A&P.

[kortopates]

6 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.  Unless you go to school, you need 4800 hours.  30 months x 160 hours = 4800

 

 

Going to school is no shortcut, just a more focused education that eliminates perhaps the busy work like cleanng the shop. My A&P school time at the comminity college was 2.5 yrs for 5 full time semesters of 16 weeks each at 30 hrs a week. Over 5 semesters (1 General + 2 Airframe + 2 Powerplant) it comes to 2400 hrs.  It definetly beets 4800 hrs of interning somewhere but I don't think you can beat the thoroughness of a schools education and quality of instruction.

How would building an RV prepare you for wood, composites, fire protection, Oxygen systems, Turbines? Nor do most builders do more than hang a prop and engine on, so not likely to learn much about fuel delivery requirments, carburetors, fuel injection, oil and air cooling and probably nothing about diesel and turbine stages etc. to just name a few but the list goes on.

By far, much more involved than all of the pilot certs combined! The IA was the hardest FAA test of all (for me) because of the broadness of the material.

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by kortopates

[201Steve]

9 hours ago, Will.iam said:

Just build an RV-7 and you will have the hours but then taking the written exam is no walk in the park. You could even sell the RV-7 to pay you for you time. 

Yes... have two airplanes, a build site, spend money on both of them, while also working a day job. Hardly a simpler route. Lol

[201Steve]

6 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.  Unless you go to school, you need 4800 hours.  30 months x 160 hours = 4800

 

I could just take a week to change my oil each time. Do it after every trip.  As long as I’m near the work in progress, I’m still working on it...? Lol

[RobertGary1]

9 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.  Unless you go to school, you need 4800 hours.  30 months x 160 hours = 4800

 

That’s true. A friend of mine is the dean of the a&p school and tells me I should be logging all my hours. I’ve been the sole wrencher ( under supervision) for about 12 years. But when I did the math maintaining one plane would take more than a lifetime. Now if you buy a wreckage and get it flying you’d have hours. Also guys who homebuild get those hours (I think that was an FAA clarification that it doesn’t have to be a certificated plane). 

[201Steve]

48 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

That’s true. A friend of mine is the dean of the a&p school and tells me I should be logging all my hours. I’ve been the sole wrencher ( under supervision) for about 12 years. But when I did the math maintaining one plane would take more than a lifetime. Now if you buy a wreckage and get it flying you’d have hours. Also guys who homebuild get those hours (I think that was an FAA clarification that it doesn’t have to be a certificated plane). 

This should be doable. Working verrry verrrry verrrry slow. They count smoke breaks as an intern, and as it’s written, same would apply!

[EricJ]

54 minutes ago, 201Steve said:

This should be doable. Working verrry verrrry verrrry slow. They count smoke breaks as an intern, and as it’s written, same would apply!

If you have a local A&P school, many of them have night/evening programs that take about two years.   You'll have a reasonable chance of actually knowing some things when you're done, and a lot better chance of passing the written and oral/practicals exams.

[jetdriven]

13 hours ago, Will.iam said:

Just build an RV-7 and you will have the hours but then taking the written exam is no walk in the park. You could even sell the RV-7 to pay you for you time. 

It doesn’t work that way. The FAA has decided that you must work under supervision, and that building an actual airplane by yourself doesn’t qualify for that. I guess if you built it under supervision of an A/P you would log that like you would working in any other airplane in the shop

[201Steve]

2 hours ago, EricJ said:

If you have a local A&P school, many of them have night/evening programs that take about two years.   You'll have a reasonable chance of actually knowing some things when you're done, and a lot better chance of passing the written and oral/practicals exams.

If there was something like that available  in the land of opportunity, Brunswick GA, I probably would. And to your point, I actually want to learn stuff. I don’t care so much about the designation, per se. It would actually make sense. We have a major Gulfstream facility as well as a heavy jet repair station on our 8000’ airport. But that would make too much sense. 

[RobertGary1]

4 hours ago, jetdriven said:

It doesn’t work that way. The FAA has decided that you must work under supervision, and that building an actual airplane by yourself doesn’t qualify for that. I guess if you built it under supervision of an A/P you would log that like you would working in any other airplane in the shop

Arent RVs always built under supervision? Everyone I know who has done it worked with EAA and they provided him a supervising mentor. I’ve been told without that it’s difficult to get your certification from the faa after it’s built since the faa doesn’t know your methodologies etc 

[N201MKTurbo]

How does this all work in the age of the COVID?

If someone says they have a problem, we talk about a course of action and they send me lots of texts and pictures, are they being supervised?

[Immelman]

I can think of one airline captain I've worked with who was an IA, and further had a side-hustle doing pitot-static inspections.

As for me.... ATP, no A&P, no IA - but looking down the road, I am thinking building an RV is likely. Enough has been done to the 'vintage' Mooney to make me comfortable taking that step, and it would be a multi-year project but would end with a new airframe and the ability to legally sign for my own work, not to mention the better / lower cost avionics.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Immelman

[jetdriven]

1 hour ago, RobertGary1 said:

Arent RVs always built under supervision? Everyone I know who has done it worked with EAA and they provided him a supervising mentor. I’ve been told without that it’s difficult to get your certification from the faa after it’s built since the faa doesn’t know your methodologies etc 

You can take it up with the FSDO but they want you to work at a shop under supervision of an A&P who is immediately available for consultation in person. Plenty of guys over on vans Air Force have tried taking the builders logs into the FSDO and were told no. And you know these guys spent thousands of hours building these planes and they’re high quality as well, I’m not saying I agree with I’m just saying that seems to be their interpretation. 

[EricJ]

13 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

How does this all work in the age of the COVID?

If someone says they have a problem, we talk about a course of action and they send me lots of texts and pictures, are they being supervised?

What's the definition of supervision?   Inspection of somebody's work after the fact seems to fit the definition in many cases, like for OPP, fabrication or repair work that is sent out, evaluation of used parts, etc.   It may also include clarification of specifications/instructions/requirements ahead of time, but often that's all that it is.

And does "inspection" require in-person hands-on contact?   Doesn't seem to in many cases.   I think practically whatever inspection methodology is sufficient for the inspector seems to be acceptable.  Surgery can be done remotely, I don't know why mechanical work inspection can't be in many cases.   Clearly some things require more than that.

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by EricJ

[bradp]

I got ramp checked in my hangar for having my cowlings off, doing maintenance work, and someone delayed the FAA guy at the airport for an appointment. He said up front he was bored and driving around the airport waiting so was snooping around.  
 

I was changing my baffle seals (with permission of my IA).  Talked about definition of supervision with the inspector, I told him our arrangement was he was immediately available by phone, I would stop work if he became somehow unavailable, and most importantly that he would inspect the work in person and sign the logbook prior to a return to service.  We both thought that was the most responsible/ reasonable interpretations of supervision and it was a positive exchange.  He asked me what other maintenance work I had done in that fashion and I gave him a tour of the systems I had worked on snout to tail.

I think this works for an owner/PP performing certain Mx tasks within limits of the complexity and risk of the task at hand. I don’t think this is a good model for education ie learning a trade.  

[Bravoman]

Joe Cole of Cole Aviation, a MSC, holds both the IA and ATP, and many other ratings.

[Andy95W]

On 1/29/2021 at 10:22 PM, MB65E said:

I was recently asked how many ATP’s have their Inspection Authorization. Doing research I could find the number of current IA’s, and current ATPs. However, the data bases didn’t cross reference to produce a valid number.

It’s kinda funny, several of the IA’s that I know have their ATPs. Although when reviewing the data, I bet the number is pretty small. 
Anyone know a way to pull the data with out cross referencing manually? 

Thanks! 
-Matt
 

 

Why not do an informal poll here, then extrapolate out for the total pilot population?

Probably need 4 data points: ATP, IA, neither, and both.  (I can think of 3 people on Mooneyspace who are both, but there are probably a couple more).