Seat track in a C vs an F

[Chris B]

@Matt_AZwas kind enough to take me up in my first ride in a Mooney.  He has a very nice C model.

One thing that I noticed was the lack of shoulder room for me.  I am have broad shoulders (and belly) and it kind of reminded me of flying in my C152 days (space wise only).  

My question is this:  Do the F models have more travel in the aft direction that the C models?  In Matt's plane I was all the way back in the furthest lock position, not sure where Matt had his seat.  Was thinking if there was way to get the passenger seat further back then flying with a passenger (my wife 99% of the time) might be a little more comfortable.

On paper the F or J models really check a lot of boxes for me so I am really hoping I can find a configuration that give us a little wiggle room when flying with a passenger.  I am currently flying a 172 and a 182 so we are used to a little bit more shoulder space.

Thanks
 

[Hank]

Yes, the front seats in an F have one or two more clicks of travel. The C has three locking detents available for the front seats, but the F has ten additional inches of floor space, thus more travel.

[Chris B]

That is some good news.  

I wonder if there is an approved option to get more holes?

From what I understand, the F and the J are very similar, same fuselage I think?...anyway, If the J had longer tracks is it a safe bet that the F would have the same?

[Ragsf15e]

5 hours ago, Chris B said:

@Matt_AZwas kind enough to take me up in my first ride in a Mooney.  He has a very nice C model.

One thing that I noticed was the lack of shoulder room for me.  I am have broad shoulders (and belly) and it kind of reminded me of flying in my C152 days (space wise only).  

My question is this:  Do the F models have more travel in the aft direction that the C models?  In Matt's plane I was all the way back in the furthest lock position, not sure where Matt had his seat.  Was thinking if there was way to get the passenger seat further back then flying with a passenger (my wife 99% of the time) might be a little more comfortable.

On paper the F or J models really check a lot of boxes for me so I am really hoping I can find a configuration that give us a little wiggle room when flying with a passenger.  I am currently flying a 172 and a 182 so we are used to a little bit more shoulder space.

Thanks
 

How tall are you?  Your sitting position really depends on your leg length.  You’ll want to be able to get full rudder and/or use the brakes.  I'm 6’3” with a 34” inseam on my pants.  I use the furthest aft detent on my seat in a ‘68 F model.  It works.  I would use one 1” further back if it had one.  In cruise flight with nobody behind me (or my stubby 4 year old daughter), I slide the seat all the way back and have loads of room.

Shoulder room isn’t exactly plentiful if you’re “husky”.  Most folks do fine, but my neighbor was a college linebacker. I didn’t realize his size until we were rubbing shoulders on a 2 hour flight in IMC from takeoff to touchdown.

[carusoam]

Hmmmmmm.....

Seat rails and holes....

There is a procedure for adding holes...

Find a shop with a drill press...

The rails are probably riveted in place...

Either way, yes they can be modified... with a little effort...

Technically each hole is accounted for in the WnB section... if you were to add some holes.... you would want to adjust your WnB calculations to account for the new locations...

 

Work on finding the most recent fancy seats...

Or start planning some foam and leather projects....

PP thoughts only...

Go Mooney!

-a-

[skydvrboy]

Not sure about the rail lengths, but staggering the seats works quite well in the F model when flying with two broad shouldered guys up front.

[Hank]

5 hours ago, skydvrboy said:

Not sure about the rail lengths, but staggering the seats works quite well in the F model when flying with two broad shouldered guys up front.

Works well in a C, too!

[chriscalandro]

How dare you call the Mooney cabin narrow and small. I’m 15ft 3 350lbs and I fit in my Mooney just fine!

You must be doing something wrong. 
 

I take offense to such slanderous discussion. 

[sailon]

Drilling more holes in the seat rails affects airworthiness.  The good news is that I have had a DER approve the modification in my F, which resulted in a VERY comfortable seating position for my 6'3" frame (weight is classified).  Bad news is that the DER is very expensive, but the end result was worth it.

[Chris B]

11 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

How tall are you?  Your sitting position really depends on your leg length.  You’ll want to be able to get full rudder and/or use the brakes.  I'm 6’3” with a 34” inseam on my pants.  I use the furthest aft detent on my seat in a ‘68 F model.  It works.  I would use one 1” further back if it had one.  In cruise flight with nobody behind me (or my stubby 4 year old daughter), I slide the seat all the way back and have loads of room.

Shoulder room isn’t exactly plentiful if you’re “husky”.  Most folks do fine, but my neighbor was a college linebacker. I didn’t realize his size until we were rubbing shoulders on a 2 hour flight in IMC from takeoff to touchdown.

I am 6' with a 38" inseam and no where near the build of a linebacker.  When I flew with Matt I was on the last hole and was comfortable on the pedals. 

[tmo]

31 minutes ago, sailon said:

Drilling more holes in the seat rails affects airworthiness.  The good news is that I have had a DER approve the modification in my F, which resulted in a VERY comfortable seating position for my 6'3" frame (weight is classified).  Bad news is that the DER is very expensive, but the end result was worth it.

You got a 337 out of it, right? Couldn't others use that 337 as a template? I guess making a full STC out of it is too much, but I'm pretty sure data from a 337 can be copied. A seasoned IA will soon correct me if I'm wrong go mooneyspace!

[Chris B]

10 hours ago, skydvrboy said:

Not sure about the rail lengths, but staggering the seats works quite well in the F model when flying with two broad shouldered guys up front.

Yes, that is what I am hoping to do.  I figure I might be comfortable flying in the second to the last notch.  If that is the case and I get some more holes drilled for the passenger side then the passenger can offset to the rear a little more.

[Hank]

6 hours ago, Chris B said:

Yes, that is what I am hoping to do.  I figure I might be comfortable flying in the second to the last notch.  If that is the case and I get some more holes drilled for the passenger side then the passenger can offset to the rear a little more.

I fly in the middle notch, my wife rides in the rear notch and can't touch the pedals even when she tries. No interference when I reach for the trim wheel between the seats. 

My C only has three.notches.

[MooneyMitch]

7 hours ago, chriscalandro said:

How dare you call the Mooney cabin narrow and small. I’m 15ft 3 350lbs and I fit in my Mooney just fine!

You must be doing something wrong. 
 

I take offense to such slanderous discussion. 

Laughing.... 

All seriousness aside though....... I’ve been told the Mooney interior width is mostly neck and neck with a Bonanza.  The height..... well, no comparison there I suppose.

[Chris B]

it was my first flight in one and i only have 172 and 182s to compare it with.

i think my next task is to ask around and see if there are any kind souls in my area with a F or J that wouldn't mind giving me a show and tell.  to date i have seen 3 C models and that has been it.

[McMooney]

kinda hard to imagine not having room in the C. 

In my E, at 6'0 with 32in inseam, with the seat all the way back I'm FAR from reaching rudders and i'm stretching for the yoke.  that being said, i'm thinking bout taking the right seat out so i can have peace when the wife comes along.  shhh don't tell her i said that

[Hank]

1 hour ago, MooneyMitch said:

All seriousness aside though....... I’ve been told the Mooney interior width is mostly neck and neck with a Bonanza.  The height..... well, no comparison there I suppose.

Measure cabin height from the seat surface to the ceiling. Floor-to-butt height doesn't help headroom at all.

I'm 5'11" and have never come near hitting the ceiling of my C. Not so in a 172, I've smacked those ceilings pretty hard. Cabin height is a lot higher in a 172 . . . . Seat-to-ceiling height (where my head is) is much higher in my Mooney.

[MooneyMitch]

31 minutes ago, Hank said:

Measure cabin height from the seat surface to the ceiling. Floor-to-butt height doesn't help headroom at all.

I'm 5'11" and have never come near hitting the ceiling of my C. Not so in a 172, I've smacked those ceilings pretty hard. Cabin height is a lot higher in a 172 . . . . Seat-to-ceiling height (where my head is) is much higher in my Mooney.

Hank, you've obviously never flown your Mooney along the Western edge of the mountains just east of Santa Barbara, CA......................yikes!   One time we hit some turbulence that scared the bjesus out of me!  We were strapped in super tight.......lap and shoulder belts thank goodness.  5'8" inches I am.  I did smack my noggin on the roof and the accompanying thud of the airframe was enough to rattle my soul.  I hope to never, ever experience that again!  One very tough airplane, the Mooney is.

I'm probably incorrect about BO butt to ceiling height, but it sure looks taller that our beloved Mooneys.  Irrelevant to me regardless, cause I'm a death do us part Mooney person...................

[Hank]

You're right, Mitch. My only flying in the Republik has been in the back of widebody jets.

But flying my C across SD and WY, I hit the worst turbulence I'd ever seen--rocking, rolling and thumping along as I slowed toward Va for an hour. My wife and I were headed to Yellowstone with luggage for a week and a couple bags for our friends in an overloaded 172. Yes, it was right before Labor Day and well before noon.

I've also found bumps in WV that put my wife's DC headset into the ceiling (she's 5'3"), but I've yet to meet the ceiling in the air. 

[M20F-1968]

Install rudder pedai extenders.  The plane will feel like it has more shoulder room as well.

John Breda

[sailon]

On 11/17/2020 at 11:29 AM, tmo said:

You got a 337 out of it, right? Couldn't others use that 337 as a template? I guess making a full STC out of it is too much, but I'm pretty sure data from a 337 can be copied. A seasoned IA will soon correct me if I'm wrong go mooneyspace!

Yes, I got a 337, but no, a seasoned IA cannot legally duplicate the 337 as the 337 refers to a print of the modified part which is exclusively to my tail number.  It will require a new print showing the holes specifically for your airplane.  I did find the example I worked from here on Mooneyspace, somebody did the modification to an E model.  I also used the same DER.   Somebody mentioned that they were 6'3" with a 34 inch inseam.  That is exactly my dimensions.  Not too hefty, but other dimensions and mass will remain classified.  The modifications were pricy, however the comfort is priceless.

Edited December 14, 2020 by sailon
Added DER reference from Mooneyspace.

[Hank]

22 minutes ago, sailon said:

Somebody mentioned that they were 6'3" with a 34 inch inseam.  That is exactly my dimensions.  Not too hefty, but other dimensions and mass will remain classified.  The modifications were pricy, however the comfort is priceless.

Wow! I wear 33" inseam when I can find them, and fly my C from the middle hole. And yes, I mass rather more than a standard FAA adult, but can still reach the floor tank switch in the air . . . .

My wife, all 5'3" of her, slides her seat forward until it locks in, and can't reach the pedals at all.

Before spending DER money to drill holes, make sure you don't have rudder pedal extensions. If so, you can sell those and make money while gaining legroom!

[sailon]

Do not have pedal extensions.  First thing I looked for.  Wish I could reach the fuel switch, use a custom tool to reach it.  Works great.  What is interesting is that I can fly a 252 or ovation without any seat modifications, altho the seat is just a tad too far forward, but it is workable.  Not sure, but I think there was a slight increase in length in the fuselage there.  Have not sat in a J for a while.

[sailon]

But with the modified tracks, the comfort is exceptional!!!!

 

[Hank]

26 minutes ago, sailon said:

Do not have pedal extensions.  First thing I looked for.  Wish I could reach the fuel switch, use a custom tool to reach it.  Works great.  What is interesting is that I can fly a 252 or ovation without any seat modifications, altho the seat is just a tad too far forward, but it is workable.  Not sure, but I think there was a slight increase in length in the fuselage there.  Have not sat in a J for a while.

The mid-body starts alphabetically with F, and they have 5" additional floorspace behind the front seats (plus another 5" baggage space), which permits sliding the seat further back. I think they have 5 detents for sliding the front seats, while my C has only 3.