How Fast Can A Mooney Get Through the Pattern? | Pattern Work Orange County KMGJ | N6887N

[PilotFun101]

Consider Subscribing and Fly Along! Join the Fun! Did some pattern work at Orange Count Airport "(KMGJ). Things happen pretty fast in a complex airplane more so in a fast Mooney. Check it out! Thumbs up! : ) Thanks for Flying Along!

 

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[StevenL757]

Christopher,

Certainly not trying to have a go at you, but curious to know why you would title this, in part, "how fast can a Mooney get through the pattern" and why you would rush pattern work...particularly after you encountered multiple flight school and other aircraft in and around the airport.  Hurrying through anything (especially a checklist) in any phase of flight has nothing to do with "staying ahead of the aircraft".  Double-checking things (not just gear) and repeating segments of your checklist when you find yourself getting task-saturated require additional time and spacing in the pattern.  You'll never be graded positively on any practical exam or other check ride for rushing anything.

You make reference to “slowing things down a bit” a couple of times, and also "making a tight turn if an engine quits in the pattern".  Among the FAA's "most-wanted" (along with CFIT, VFR into IMC, and others) are the downwind-to-base and base-to-final stall/spin incidents.  The latter is exceptionally easy to get into when things are rushed in the pattern, especially if you find yourself overshooting (then over-correcting) to salvage an approach to make a runway.  Again, not lecturing but seeking clarity in case I missed something.

Steve

[PilotFun101]

On 10/25/2020 at 1:18 AM, StevenL757 said:

Christopher,

Certainly not trying to have a go at you, but curious to know why you would title this, in part, "how fast can a Mooney get through the pattern" and why you would rush pattern work...particularly after you encountered multiple flight school and other aircraft in and around the airport.  Hurrying through anything (especially a checklist) in any phase of flight has nothing to do with "staying ahead of the aircraft".  Double-checking things (not just gear) and repeating segments of your checklist when you find yourself getting task-saturated require additional time and spacing in the pattern.  You'll never be graded positively on any practical exam or other check ride for rushing anything.

You make reference to “slowing things down a bit” a couple of times, and also "making a tight turn if an engine quits in the pattern".  Among the FAA's "most-wanted" (along with CFIT, VFR into IMC, and others) are the downwind-to-base and base-to-final stall/spin incidents.  The latter is exceptionally easy to get into when things are rushed in the pattern, especially if you find yourself overshooting (then over-correcting) to salvage an approach to make a runway.  Again, not lecturing but seeking clarity in case I missed something.

Steve

HI Steve.

No worries.  I like input on stuff like this.  We learn more and more everyday.  I never take anything personally.  Again I love input from other pilots.  

But my point to the video is to show how fast things can happen in the pattern with A mooney and really any complex airplane.  Its more challenging when there is other planes in the pattern.  I like to fly the pattern close incase of an engine issue.  I can fly a longer pattern but with other planes in the pattern that are not as fast it makes that difficult as well. 

Thanks again for the input and I totally get it. 

[donkaye, MCFI]

1 hour ago, PilotFun101 said:

HI Steve.

No worries.  I like input on stuff like this.  We learn more and more everyday.  I never take anything personally.  Again I love input from other pilots.  

But my point to the video is to show how fast things can happen in the pattern with A mooney and really any complex airplane.  Its more challenging when there is other planes in the pattern.  I like to fly the pattern close incase of an engine issue.  I can fly a longer pattern but with other planes in the pattern that are not as fast it makes that difficult as well. 

Thanks again for the input and I totally get it. 

Well PilotFun101, you did a good job with your video, not so much with your demonstration of landing technique.  This critique is from a flight instructor's point of view.  You flew by the "seat of your pants", not in any way, shape or form with the precision or technique I like to teach.  Basically you flew with no discipline.  You worked  too hard.  This comes from flying an undisciplined pattern.  In short your power settings were all over the chart, your gear timing and flap settings were inappropriate, your slope varied, your aim point was too long, and your transition speed was too fast so you touched down long.    I've attached the way a disciplined pattern should be flown in the C Model.  When you get the time, I'd like to see another video flown per the below description.  Good luck.

Very nice panel!

[PilotFun101]

25 minutes ago, donkaye said:

Well PilotFun101, you did a good job with your video, not so much with your demonstration of landing technique.  This critique is from a flight instructor's point of view.  You flew by the "seat of your pants", not in any way, shape or form with the precision or technique I like to teach.  Basically you flew with no discipline.  You worked  too hard.  This comes from flying an undisciplined pattern.  In short your power settings were all over the chart, your gear timing and flap settings were inappropriate, your slope varied, your aim point was too long, and your transition speed was too fast so you touched down long.    I've attached the way a disciplined pattern should be flown in the C Model.  When you get the time, I'd like to see another video flown per the below description.  Good luck.

Very nice panel!

I will defiantly try this. It makes a lot of scene 

Ill print it out and have it on my next video I make. 

Thank you for the information!

 

[the_elkhartian]

I did my PPL/IR/Commercial training at a smattering of different flight schools. Usually the sleepy FBO variety with the beat to heck C172 and a part-time instructor.

Now I work at an airline pilot factory where we graduate about 600 airline pilots a year....about 400 of them go straight into the right seat of various Airbuses and Boeing products when they graduate (or at least they did 6 months ago!).

The biggest difference between sleepy FBO training and professional pilot training is that we're teaching them to fly profiles. It's really boring and routine because it's basically the same thing every time with only slight adjustments. You do A, B, C, and D. Something not looking right? Fast on base? High on final? You're probably going around because you've stepped outside of the landing profile.

I think we could learn a lot from that airline style of operation in GA. Make a profile. Stick to it. Every time.

 

All that to say....this is a TOUGH crowd! Props to @PilotFun101 for being brave enough to post a video on here! I'm not going to open myself up to that kind of criticism any time soon! 

 

 

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, PilotFun101 said:

I will defiantly try this. It makes a lot of scene 

Ill print it out and have it on my next video I make. 

Thank you for the information!

 

Hah!  There's a big difference between "defiantly" trying that and "definitely" trying that 

[carusoam]

I enjoy Chris’ videos...

My old M20C and his, appear to come from a different factory...   

 

Chris, you may be familiar... Don has some CFII awards, and wrote the guidelines for the best ways to land a Mooney... He has a Website with additional info... with lots of model specific details... (I Sort of understated his total actual skills...)

If you get a chance... check out Don’s instrument panel... Lots of color screen...

Keep up the good work... it keeps getting better...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Davidv]

35 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

Hah!  There's a big difference between "defiantly" trying that and "definitely" trying that 

Seems like a Freudian slip to me 

[hammdo]

On 10/27/2020 at 7:00 PM, donkaye said:

Well PilotFun101, you did a good job with your video, not so much with your demonstration of landing technique.  This critique is from a flight instructor's point of view.  You flew by the "seat of your pants", not in any way, shape or form with the precision or technique I like to teach.  Basically you flew with no discipline.  You worked  too hard.  This comes from flying an undisciplined pattern.  In short your power settings were all over the chart, your gear timing and flap settings were inappropriate, your slope varied, your aim point was too long, and your transition speed was too fast so you touched down long.    I've attached the way a disciplined pattern should be flown in the C Model.  When you get the time, I'd like to see another video flown per the below description.  Good luck.

Very nice panel!

Love this.. 

Would like to know the difference for the 3° base vs 45° turn to base... 

Also, @donkaye, how do we get more of these nuggets? I have the PPP book and your DVD! 

-Don 

[PilotFun101]

On 10/27/2020 at 10:42 PM, carusoam said:

I enjoy Chris’ videos...

My old M20C and his, appear to come from a different factory...   

 

Chris, you may be familiar... Don has some CFII awards, and wrote the guidelines for the best ways to land a Mooney... He has a Website with additional info... with lots of model specific details... (I Sort of understated his total actual skills...)

If you get a chance... check out Don’s instrument panel... Lots of color screen...

Keep up the good work... it keeps getting better...

Best regards,

-a-

 

Thanks and will do. 

[PilotFun101]

On 10/27/2020 at 10:22 PM, jaylw314 said:

Hah!  There's a big difference between "defiantly" trying that and "definitely" trying that 

LOL.  

[steingar]

Not a big fan of touch & goes, and even less a fan of related touch & goes in a landing pattern for a complex aircraft.  Too many things happening too quickly.  Too easy to forget something like the gear.  It has happened many times before.

While I bought a Mooney to go fast, I'm rarely in a hurry if I'm just doing some landings.

 

[Seymour]

On 10/27/2020 at 8:00 PM, donkaye said:

 I've attached the way a disciplined pattern should be flown in the C Model.  When you get the time, I'd like to see another video flown per the below description.  

Great List, Don!   ....but it didn't come with the DVD (unless I threw it away by mistake).     Printing it out for next week's pattern work, unless you have one for an -E.

I'll also search for an older thread where your list is discussed more thoroughly (rather than hijack this thread) because there are several questions I have about your list (eg. I find it interesting that you put 10 degrees of flaps in on crosswind, don't add any until base and then put full flaps in on base).   

Enjoyed the video and subscribed @PilotFun101 -    Quick question:  I try to keep a sterile cockpit (no banter with pax) while in the pattern.  Do you?   When talking to the 'video', does it feel like you're talking to yourself (like callouts) or does it feel like you're having a discussion?   

[donkaye, MCFI]

3 hours ago, Seymour said:

Great List, Don!   ....but it didn't come with the DVD (unless I threw it away by mistake).     Printing it out for next week's pattern work, unless you have one for an -E.

I'll also search for an older thread where your list is discussed more thoroughly (rather than hijack this thread) because there are several questions I have about your list (eg. I find it interesting that you put 10 degrees of flaps in on crosswind, don't add any until base and then put full flaps in on base).   

Enjoyed the video and subscribed @PilotFun101 -    Quick question:  I try to keep a sterile cockpit (no banter with pax) while in the pattern.  Do you?   When talking to the 'video', does it feel like you're talking to yourself (like callouts) or does it feel like you're having a discussion?   

The M20C airspeed numbers in MPH can be used for the E, however, the MP numbers need to change to establish those speeds.  For more detailed information go to my website and download the AirVenture 2019 Handout.  (www.donkaye.com)