igorbly Posted August 23, 2020 Report Posted August 23, 2020 This is probably a silly question, but when looking through old maintenance entries, would you assume the oil was changed at an annual inspection? Especially if the entry says "inspected engine in accordance with Lycoming 100 hour checklist" -- which does specify to change the oil? Just thought it was interesting that so many actions were detailed in the entry, but not the oil change. Quote
carusoam Posted August 23, 2020 Report Posted August 23, 2020 Done every year at annual... Wherever it says in the maintenance manual... The log books will show how many quarts of what type of oil got used... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- Quote
MooneyMitch Posted August 23, 2020 Report Posted August 23, 2020 42 minutes ago, igorbly said: This is probably a silly question, but when looking through old maintenance entries, would you assume the oil was changed at an annual inspection? Especially if the entry says "inspected engine in accordance with Lycoming 100 hour checklist" -- which does specify to change the oil? Just thought it was interesting that so many actions were detailed in the entry, but not the oil change. Assume is a dangerous word......... Trust [maybe] but verify............. 1 Quote
EricJ Posted August 23, 2020 Report Posted August 23, 2020 My IA is pretty strict with the rules and never changes oil at the annual. He knows I do the oil changes and cut the filter, so he won't do it if it's not due. 1 Quote
Danb Posted August 23, 2020 Report Posted August 23, 2020 The MCS ‘s I’ve used ask if I want the oil changed. I go into annual this week and am considering changing mine beforehand Quote
kmyfm20s Posted August 23, 2020 Report Posted August 23, 2020 Every annual I have had they automatically change oil. A few I only had a few hours on the oil. After that I always assumed they would and specified when not to. Quote
Greg Ellis Posted August 24, 2020 Report Posted August 24, 2020 The mechanics that I use, if they do change the oil at annual, will say they changed the oil and say what oil they put back in, how many quarts and what oil filter was used. I usually do all my oil changes so rarely do they do it. So I would not assume that it was done if they did not specify these things and would call and ask them. Quote
ArtVandelay Posted August 24, 2020 Report Posted August 24, 2020 For those who don’t have their oil changed at annuals, do you check the pickup screen for metal?I let my mechanic do it and stipulate that he check the screen at annual. 1 Quote
PT20J Posted August 24, 2020 Report Posted August 24, 2020 Be sure to check both airframe and engine logbooks. If it’s not logged, assume it wasn’t done. It is not required to change the oil at annual, but the filter media is supposed to be inspected. https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=0863bc08f79f500eda8ee73439be0400&mc=true&node=ap14.1.43_117.d&rgn=div9 Skip 1 Quote
Greg Ellis Posted August 24, 2020 Report Posted August 24, 2020 10 minutes ago, PT20J said: Be sure to check both airframe and engine logbooks. If it’s not logged, assume it wasn’t done. It is not required to change the oil at annual, but the filter media is supposed to be inspected. https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=0863bc08f79f500eda8ee73439be0400&mc=true&node=ap14.1.43_117.d&rgn=div9 Skip So this is interesting. The code says that you must check for foreign matter on screens and sump drain plugs. Well, to check either one of these the oil needs to be drained, correct? So an oil change is essentially required at every annual in order to comply with this, correct or not? Quote
MB65E Posted August 24, 2020 Report Posted August 24, 2020 Lycoming even has a service instruction letter on the entire topic. Worth a read every once in awhile. I’m going to start signing off oil changes IAW. SB480F. -Matt https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/SB480F Oil ServicingMetallic Solids Identification After Oil Servicing and Associated Corrective Action.pdf Quote
SantosDumont Posted August 24, 2020 Report Posted August 24, 2020 My last annual I had literally just changed the oil. I told the shop this and told them not to do it as part of the annual. Quote
rbridges Posted August 24, 2020 Report Posted August 24, 2020 I usually supply the oil and filter for the annual, so I know it's been changed. 1 Quote
N201MKTurbo Posted August 24, 2020 Report Posted August 24, 2020 19 hours ago, EricJ said: My IA is pretty strict with the rules and never changes oil at the annual. He knows I do the oil changes and cut the filter, so he won't do it if it's not due. So, when studying for my IA, ir said over and over that an IA cannot delegate an inspection. By you telling him that you inspected it is delegating the inspection. Just sayin.... 1 Quote
N201MKTurbo Posted August 24, 2020 Report Posted August 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Greg Ellis said: So this is interesting. The code says that you must check for foreign matter on screens and sump drain plugs. Well, to check either one of these the oil needs to be drained, correct? So an oil change is essentially required at every annual in order to comply with this, correct or not? You could put the oil back in... Quote
kortopates Posted August 24, 2020 Report Posted August 24, 2020 For those that change their own oil for annual, don't miss the most vital opportunity to check the oil screen as well cutting open the oil filter. Most oil screen only get checked at annual some not always then either. 1 Quote
N201MKTurbo Posted August 24, 2020 Report Posted August 24, 2020 And to those who don't think there is value in checking the suction screen, myself included, until now. I was doing my last annual ever and found metal in the section screen. I'm pulling the engine Quote
PT20J Posted August 24, 2020 Report Posted August 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Greg Ellis said: So this is interesting. The code says that you must check for foreign matter on screens and sump drain plugs. Well, to check either one of these the oil needs to be drained, correct? So an oil change is essentially required at every annual in order to comply with this, correct or not? Keep in mind that this regulation was written back when pressure screens were the norm whereas now full flow filters are common. Also, most airplanes these days have quick drains rather than plugs. On engines where the pressure screen has been been replaced with a filter, examining the filter media substitutes for the screen inspection. As Paul noted, there is also a coarse suction screen. On many Continental engines, this screen is not externally accessible. On my Lycoming-powered IO-360, it is removable but a real pain to safety wire. If you do remove it, replace the copper gasket (split side should go toward engine) and note the specific torque method -- you really don't want a leak here. Since it is a very coarse screen, a lot of shops will only examine it if metal is found in the filter. I had mine pulled last annual as it was the first annual on a new engine, but will not plan on doing it this year. When we found metal in the filter of the old engine, we pulled it and found part of an oil control ring in there! Skip 1 Quote
ArtVandelay Posted August 24, 2020 Report Posted August 24, 2020 I don’t pull the screen, I have a quick drain, so I don’t see the point of having one if I need to pull the lower cowl every time. But I do strain the drained oil through a screen so if there is metal in sump I will see it. Quote
MB65E Posted August 24, 2020 Report Posted August 24, 2020 2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said: You could put the oil back in... Worked in a shop that we had a clean bucket specifically for dumping oil that owners wanted to save. Or maintenance that needed to be done. -Matt 2 Quote
EricJ Posted August 24, 2020 Report Posted August 24, 2020 1 minute ago, MB65E said: Worked in a shop that we had a clean bucket specifically for dumping oil that owners wanted to save. Or maintenance that needed to be done. -Matt When I was young I ran a millwork shop at a lumber yard, and among all the tools I kept a utility knife and a couple other tool "instruments" around that were kept very clean and reserved for the frequent small surgeries that were needed among the yard personnel to remove splinters, drill the occasional finger nail, etc. Same idea. 2 Quote
carusoam Posted August 24, 2020 Report Posted August 24, 2020 Great question, Igor! 1) The oil change seems to not be part of the annual inspection... 2) The OC is often on a different schedule based on the owner’s preference.... every 25 or 50 hours of operation... 3) Cleaning screens and changing filters is often NOT done for every oil change... so they get their own schedule as well... 4) When oil is new and annual inspection occurs... the oil may get removed and put back after the inspection... 5) The oil screen is where important metal flecks are going to show up... so don’t ignore it forever... 6) Bummer, Rich got any pics of the collection of bits? May your metal bits be small, few, and P/N free... Best regards, -a- Quote
N201MKTurbo Posted August 24, 2020 Report Posted August 24, 2020 54 minutes ago, carusoam said: 6) Bummer, Rich got any pics of the collection of bits? May your metal bits be small, few, and P/N free... Best regards, -a- I intended to show you guys. I was on my way to the hangar, of a guy who works at the local engine shop, to show him the bits. I think I left them in another gentleman's hangar. I'll be out there this afternoon and if I can find them I'll post the picture. They were non-magnetic. Looked like 0.010 aluminum shim stock that had been hammered until it fractured into different bits. If you were to assemble all the bits together there would be about 1 sq in of stuff. Probably some bushing, but I can't figure it out. Could be from some accessory too. I thought it could be from the propellor dome, but when I pulled the prop it was clean in the bore. It would be almost impossible to get into the sump from there. About 10 hours ago my oil pressure changed character. It took longer to come up into the green and then came up about 1/2 a needle lower. Between these two things, the engine is going to get torn down. 1 Quote
carusoam Posted August 24, 2020 Report Posted August 24, 2020 Any chance you have an aluminum oil pump gear in there? I think an early 2000s AD may have eliminated them... But, if the oil pump was in a self destruct mode, that would show a decline in OilP over time... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- Quote
N201MKTurbo Posted August 24, 2020 Report Posted August 24, 2020 24 minutes ago, carusoam said: Any chance you have an aluminum oil pump gear in there? I think an early 2000s AD may have eliminated them... But, if the oil pump was in a self destruct mode, that would show a decline in OilP over time... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- I'll find out when I tear it down. 1 Quote
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