TSA

[MooneyMitch]

Ladies and gentleman....................it has become an extremely sad day, now that we cannot reach our own private aircraft, because a very useless directive from TSA.  

 Example: We landed at an alternate airport late last evening due to weather issues.  Exited the airport, which now has NO access gate code for entry back to our aircraft.  We are now unable to get to our airplane!!  Unless you have registered with some desginated FBO [or otherwise], which I might add must be during their business hours, or you have a friend at that particular airport with a new TSA badge, there is no way to get back to your plane. 

I will, if need be, jump the fence or whatever is needed to get to my plane, which more than likely turns me into a criminal!! This is truly a sad state of affairs.  You must, if you haven't already, write your state representives now, and express your feelings on this most unfortunate and ridiculous situation. 

It is truly pathetic, that we are kept from our possession by this worthless directive.  It serves no one....................a true terrorist is not going to be stopped by a simple 6 foot fence or mechanical gate.  This simply punishes us aircraft owners and no one else.  Another tremendous loss of our freedom!!  Am I angry, you bet!!!!!!!!!!!...........as we all should be.

[Magnum]

You can be glad that you don't fly to Zurich, Switzerland. They have a GA parking area, with a nice terminal. But due to new regulations you are NOT allowed to walk the 100-200 ft from your aircraft to the terminal alone. You must be escorted by security. You have to call them and wait until they arrive. And as you have to pay for everything for aviation in Europe, it is around US$15 (plus landing fees around 50 US$, which is really cheap around here).

If you really want to see how GA can be destroyed, come and visit Europe....

Magnus (Trying to fly as much as possible before GA is dead)

[MooneyMitch]

I am aware of GA in European countires and I am not at all pleased we are foolishly not far behind.  We have to speak up in mass NOW!!!  Let's not sit back and wait for our AOPA/EAA, etc. reps. to do that for us.  Write your Senator!!!

[GeorgePerry]

Mitch

I couldn't agree with you more.  The only people this rediculous TSA policy effects are aircraft owners and the businesses that support Them.  Who are they kidding....I mean really.  If someone wants to steal a plane to do harm, then they will.  No silly badging program is going to limit or in any way prevent that.

Unfortunately this is a case when government gets out of control.  Those in power feel the need to create another "needless" rule.  These rules are conceived, written and approved by bureaucrats, who know little or nothing about the realm over which they preside.  AOPA and EAA weighted in heavily against the rule, but were unsuccessful in stopping it....sad to say.

TSA operates under the banner of "safety" and "protectionism".  Those who argue against them fight an uphill battle since ignorance and fear are powerfull forces to overcome.

Risk is inherent in life.  I just hope that at some point we as a nation decide “THAT’S ENOUGH”!  I sincerely hope our elected or appointed officials come to the realization that each time they institute some pointless rule that limits our hard won freedoms, we surrender little by little to those who wish us harm.

I’ve devoted the better part of 20 years of my life to the Military.  As a Military Officer and Fighter Pilot in the Navy;  when I see government agencies infringe upon the freedoms I’ve worked so hard to defend, it makes me sad and calls in to question the competency and intellectual abilities of our senior leaders.

 

 

[MooneyMitch]

Jim, you bring up another very valid point.  My GA airports [sBP and SMX] are not huge by any means.  We have limited commuter service daily which has us fall under the TSA badge BS!  Our services at each field are not necessarily the most expensive at all.  In fact, SBP provides the lowest 100LL prices on the Central Coast of CA. 

Both airports have businesses completely supported by GA.  Avionics, propeller, FBO/maint. facilities, restaurants, flight schools, paint shop [ArtCraft Paint, which with my extensive research, provided by far lowest and highest quality paint process on my Ovation] , etc.  We don't need to avoid these folks at all, price depending of course. 

Point is, as we all know, GA is suffering financially and this will affect all of us pilots/aircraft owners.  Putting people out of business due to absolutely ridiculous, poorly thought out restrictions, is NUTS!!  Write your Senators and this is the time to speak up loudly!!!

[MooneyMitch]

I understand your point Jim and applaud the small GA airport, but.................one piece at a time is taken.  Loss of freedom at commercial airports, then what's next my friend? Typical this is.............let's take a small piece at a time and then on to the little out of the way airport.  Oh my goodness, someone can just walk up, unmonitored and take a Cessna 152 and blow up the local Elks Club!!!  That is a joke, but this is NO joke.  Protest!!!!

[Lood]

Yep... this really sounds bad - it actually reminded me of the following quote:

“The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed.” - Adolf Hitler

[mooniac58]

Indeed.  The path to socialism and eventually communism is a slow, slow process.  They will gradually take away all of our freedoms until we are prisoners in our own country.  Definately write your representatives and complain.  Better yet, perhaps it is time again to start a civil war in this country and take it all back. ;-)

[MooneyMitch]

There are 455 airports within our beloved USA affected by this ridiculous directive, according to the latest MAPA log[July 2009]. If you want to fly to Santa Barbara for a day trip to have lunch, take the bus to the zoo, etc.........beware! Fly to the beautiful Monterey Bay area for a visit to the Acquarium, a walk down the wharf, etc........beware! Planning a trip to Seattle to visit the magnificent Boeing museum...........you will be affected by this. These are just a few examples of our local airports here on the Central Coast of CA and Pacific Northwest.

Yes, there are ways to accomplish getting back to your plane, if you jump through all the hoops and it happens to be at the right time and it is convenient for others who hold the key for you. The point is, more restrictions, less activity. The less activity and the less desire to go to these places............less people going, less money spent/transferred, less businesses will be able to operate, less flying and less flying businesses to support us, etc..........get the picture? GA does not need less !!

I apologize to all MooneySpace members for this continued rant, but this is dead serious folks!!  Please contact your representatives and let them know your feelings!!

[67M20F]

Quote: mooniac58

Indeed.  The path to socialism and eventually communism is a slow, slow process.  They will gradually take away all of our freedoms until we are prisoners in our own country.  Definately write your representatives and complain.  Better yet, perhaps it is time again to start a civil war in this country and take it all back. ;-)

[ray]

If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. - Sir Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill

 

[GeorgePerry]

For everyone's information: 

Congressional oversight of the TSA mostly comes from the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee and the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. Each of these committees has an aviation subcommittee, which means there is a healthy list of potential contacts.

If your inclinded to address this issue with our elected officials here is a consise list of contacts:

The chairman of the Senate committee is Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-WV. The ranking member is Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-TX.  Press contact: Jennilee Keefe, 202-224-7824, jenilee-keefe@commerce.senate.gov. The web site is http://commerce.senate.gov/public/. The chairman of the aviation subcommittee is Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-ND http://dorgan.senate.gov/ . The ranking member is Sen. James DeMint, R-SC. http://demint.senate.gov/public/

The chairman of the House committee is Rep. James Oberstar, D-MN. Main office number: 202-225-4472. http://oberstar.house.gov/.  The press aide is Jim Berard, 202-225-4472. The ranking member is John Mica, 202-225-9446. http://www.house.gov/mica/

Jerry F. Costello, Illinois, Chairman Subcommittee on Aviation http://costello.house.gov/IMA/issue_subscribe.shtml

http://transportation.house.gov/about.aspxhttp://costello.house.gov/IMA/issue_subscribe.shtml'>

[MooneyMitch]

Thank you George.  You have provided the direct contacts for us all.  Even with this point direct information, it is not easy getting to these folks and it takes some additional effort working through their email system, but please take the time. 

[GeorgePerry]

TSA names pilot, security director as GA manager

The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) has named Brian Delauter as acting manager for general aviation.

Delauter—a pilot with commercial single- and multiengine land, airline transport pilot, and flight instructor (single- and multiengine, and instrument) certificates—joined the TSA in 2002 as a stakeholder liaison and most recently served as federal security director at Savannah International Airport, where he was responsible for all TSA activities at nine airports across two states.

“As a pilot, Mr. Delauter can draw on his own experience with general aviation to move toward security solutions that work for GA,” said AOPA President Craig Fuller. “AOPA looks forward to working with him as the TSA considers issues that will affect GA.”

Delauter was a pilot for more than 15 years before he joined the TSA, flying GA aircraft as well as commercial aircraft for Northwest Airlines. He began his career as a flight instructor at Eglin Air Force Base in Florida and holds a bachelor of science degree in aviation management from the Florida Institute of Technology.

[MooneyMitch]

I was reminded today again of one our many losses of freedoms in this country, which is the direct result of terrorists and our Governments ability for knee jerk reactions.

During my situation today, thoughts of things I’ve read over the years about Nazi Germany freely entered my mind. How the Nazi’s turned average citizens into spies and informants on each other. This is so tragic to me but I think we are there!

TSA directive 8G is what they call it. If you don’t know about this, it is the Nazi style directive that TSA was able to institute at all commercial airports throughout the United States of America. A GA pilot at one of these over 400 airports must have a background check and an appropriate badge to get them to his/her airplane. You know, the place where you keep you plane!

In addition, if you land at a foreign airport [like the one 20 miles North of me] and leave the airport fenced area, you cannot get back to your aircraft without someone [like a restaurant waitress, or a secretary at an FBO…like that’s really secure!] letting you back in to get to your very own airplane! If you decide you want to get to your airplane after the restaurant is closed, or the FBO is gone home for the night, you are SOL! Well, maybe you can call, get them out of bed and back to the airport to let you in, for a small fee of course. Beyond ridiculous, eh? You are correct.

Here’s some more for you. Today I drove up to the foreign airports hangar access gate and tried to verbally contact my friend in his hangar, just across the way. Vehicles carrying Nazi influenced folks drove in and out of the gate, stopping to make sure I did not bolt into the "secure" area and looking at me strangely. Spying in their rear view mirror to make sure I didn’t fire up my vehicle and race into the area.

Heck, there’s even a sign that says, "do not let anyone enter". We are now not only spies and informants; we are now required to defend the gate at all costs. Uh, I don’t think I can stop a terrorist if they really want to get in.

One partially non-brain washed person asked me if I was looking for someone. He actually believed me and escorted me to my friend’s hangar. My friend was not there after all [even though his hangar door was open], so this helpful person escorted me back out of the "secure" area.

Later, after visiting and driving away from another friend’s FBO at this same field, I was stopped by what appeared to be some type of an official looking airport vehicle. Questions were asked and I was accused of infiltrating the area illegally. Another vehicle was called into action. Oh my!

This is where the Nazi thoughts came into play again. Someone had reported that a vehicle like mine was seen at the gate trying to get in. I was able to convince these highly suspicious folks that I was not who they were so excited to think they had come across!

In time, I was able to convince the fellows [completely brainwashed and fearful of repercussions from their superiors] that I was not a threat to anyone and I was let go……..But reprimanded. Hallelujah!! I was safe.

If you think that small GA airports are immune, be vigilant my friends!

We have become so brainwashed that it’s ok to lose our freedoms, and we accept it and defend that loss, like those did today. Some 38 years ago, I was required to have a background check and an appropriate badge in order to work as a civilian at a military installation. Today, I need the very same credentials to access my private aircraft at my local airport…We’ve come a long way!!

Of course, I want my aircraft behind a locked hangar door, or at least locked on the ramp so that someone cannot easily steal it or steal parts from it. Do we need this type of scrutiny and invasion of our civil rights? NO is the answer. Have we accepted it? Yes.

Benjamin Franklin

: "The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either."

 

[Buster1]

Great quote!

[Immelman]

Mitch,

I agree whole heartedly about the general thoughts on our civil liberties, and the ineffectiveness of these TSA rules. In my mind, if a person is intelligent and motivated to do evil, they will find a way to do so. The reactionary approach our government takes (i.e. take your shoes off for a commercial flight) only partially prevents a prior scenario from being repeated at best, and destroys everyone else's freedoms along the way.

However I want to chime in with a recent experience at MRY, one of the airports you mentioned as having this sort of security. I visited MRY a couple of times in the last few months, one for an FAA safety seminar at an FBO and the other an unplanned stop due to unforecast low stratus at my home base WVI (that diversion was my first ILS to miniums in the dark, a real thrill, and my passenger was absolutely amazed, but that is a story for another time!).

In neither case did I need escort to get to/from my airplane. One FBO I used (and like) is Monterey Bay Aviation. I showed up there on the unplanned stop and they were closed, it was dark, and my passenger and I could not find a way *out* of the airport fence! Luckily an FBO across the field (Del Monte) was open. They are right next to the airline terminal, yet I experienced none of the schenanigans you mention when arriving that night, or departing the next day (BTW, Del Monte is usually an expensive visit but the woman working there kindly waived all fees because I diverted due to weather.. I bought some fuel anyway). Another example is Mammoth. I was there two weeks ago and there wasn't any of this crap, despite having "Q400" Dash 8 service by Horizon.

So my point here is that -- at least for the time being -- this varies airport by airport. Its easy to point the finger at the TSA, but from what I understand there is no strict TSA imposed rule that says an airport served by a 121 airline HAS to follow these procedures. Airport management has responsibility here, in that they've chosen to adopt such draconian and useless procedures. I think that any communication along these lines should be brought to the attention of local authorities as well. Who knows, maybe the 1:1 nature of communication possible might actually make a bigger impact?

(PS: MRY receives large aircraft -- MD80s from Allegiant airlines, in case anyone was wondering if passenger seat count had to do with it).

[MooneyMitch]

Thank you for your thoughts too.  

"One FBO I used (and like) is Monterey Bay Aviation. I showed up there on the unplanned stop and they were closed, it was dark, and my passenger and I could not find a way *out* of the airport fence! Luckily an FBO across the field (Del Monte) was open"

I think the key here is luckily an FBO across the field was open!   We have lost the freedom to get to our airplanes, without Govt. interference and/or approval.  This approach is just not requried and is just simply too much!

I do not know about Mammoth, but that's interesting.

[flyguy241]

I flew to Kansas City on Sept 10th, the day before the awful attacks in NYC. I was not IFR certified at the time, so my airplane sat on that field for a month. I had to hire a flight instructor to sit in the right seat to fly out of Class B airspace after they finally allowed training flights in Class B. I guess the government had to punish somebody, but private VFR aviation was the furthest from the culprits as they could get. Go figure.

[MooneyMitch]

"So my point here is that -- at least for the time being -- this varies airport by airport. Its easy to point the finger at the TSA, but from what I understand there is no strict TSA imposed rule that says an airport served by a 121 airline HAS to follow these procedures. Airport management has responsibility here, in that they've chosen to adopt such draconian and useless procedures. I think that any communication along these lines should be brought to the attention of local authorities as well. Who knows, maybe the 1:1 nature of communication possible might actually make a bigger impact?"

It is my understanding that the TSA dictated the badge/background check [8G] and it is up to each airport to mandate how they implement.  Seems pretty cut and dry to me.  You get a background check and the subsequent badge, or you don't get to your airplane!  The security thing has gone way over board, at least at our local and the close-by foreign airport. 

It is also my understanding that the TSA 8G has not been implemented at all airports yet which may explain Mammoth.  I am also informed that there is a commercial airport in the state of Washington that has not had the TSA 8G implemented yet.  

Oh boy, do we speak to the local airport management on this one.  They always simply point to the TSA 8B directive.  Dis is an ohder und  you vill follow it or else!!!!  Can you say, passsing the buck?

[scottfromiowa]

Mitch,

I understand your frustration...I fly out of CID and have my hanger "inside the fence'.  I am required...if I want to continue to hanger...to submit to the background check for badge issuance.  I get it, the airport carries passengers and they are required to have the security procedures in place...what is frustrating is that after having had my hanger/badge/keys for over 5 years when I came due for "re-badging" even though I had already been screened my drivers license and aairport badge with photo did NOT qualify for re-issue.  I had to bring out my SS card that was photocopied and maintained by airport security...I know they are just following rules...but had to make four trips to do this as they didn't have me sign one area...had to sit through a 45 minute power point presentation...again.  Bottom line is that I choose to hanger inside the fence.  I value knowing my plane is secure in a locked hanger inside the fence...Is it a pain in the @$$...absolutely do I curse every time I fly commercial yes, but I curse because terrorists have forced our country to give up some of our freedom...I don't curse the government on this one...We must keep the skies safe.  Do I wince when a fellow pilot decides to use his plane to check out by targeting the IRS...yes.  Be an AOPA member, if you are NOT and you are a pilot shame on you.  They are fighting for our rights as GA pilots.  The Gov't does what they always do...tax, spend and make laws that punish the many for the indecretions of the few.  Just between me and you if I had been the one responding to the Detroit guy trying to light his underwear...he would NOT have had the opportunity to have been read his rights.  His trachea would have been crushed...end of terrorist.  End of rant, er I mean response.  Have a great weekend everyone!

[MooneyMitch]

Here's an excellent ariticle found on General Aviation email news this morning.  If you have the opportunity, please read it as they describe the "prison like" feeling at GJT. 

These folks are trying to help restore common sense and freedom back to their airport.  At least someone is listening to them!  I support them in their effort.   Let's see how this falls out.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_19498246

[jetdriven]

MItch: Curious, but do you support OWS?

Quote: Mitch

I understand your point Jim and applaud the small GA airport, but.................one piece at a time is taken.  Loss of freedom at commercial airports, then what's next my friend? Typical this is.............let's take a small piece at a time and then on to the little out of the way airport.  Oh my goodness, someone can just walk up, unmonitored and take a Cessna 152 and blow up the local Elks Club!!!  That is a joke, but this is NO joke.  Protest!!!!

[sapientia]

I'm new to flying, just got my PPL a few weeks ago and hope to buy a plane next summer.  Reading through this thread is very discouraging as one of the reasons to fly myself is to avoid the nonsense with TSA for domestic travel.  It is growing hard not to despise our governement who seemingly strip more of our rights and freedoms on a monthly basis.  The Senate bill which just passed overwhelmingly allowing the military to treat American citizens as terrorists and to imprison them without trial merely on suspicion is a startling development.  For example, the governement considers buying gold, giving to charities, owning a gun, and paying with cash to be supsicious activities.  Wow, imagine when I own and fly my own plane too!

[jetdriven]

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