mats for protecting wing finish during fueling.

[Vance Harral]

Just now, gsxrpilot said:

Thanks @Vance Harral for the idea. I've got yours in the hangar at BJC.

You're awesome, Paul!  I'm giving a Flight Review at KBJC this Saturday, any chance you'll be around the airport that day?

[gsxrpilot]

Just now, Vance Harral said:

You're awesome, Paul!  I'm giving a Flight Review at KBJC this Saturday, any chance you'll be around the airport that day?

I'm gonna fly out of BJC about 8am Saturday and will be back around noon.

[PJClark]

Excellent that's what I planned.  Now to figure out how to bedazzle it with a Mooney logo...

[tmo]

Has anyone thought about antistatic soldering mats as an alternative?  They seem easier to source around here, and yes, they do come without the "compartments" at the top.  Quacks like a duck, so it's a duck, right?

[gsxrpilot]

One nice feature of these mats is that they roll up easily and small and yet don't seem to stay in that shape and they immediately go flat to the shape of the wing.

Pulling up to the fuel pump after my Angel Flight delivery of hospital supplies/PPE's today, we met the Boldmethod guys in their beautiful blue and silver SR23TT Clorox bottle. They had one of the large orange fuel mats you can get from Sporty's or AS. After fueling he was struggling to fold it up some way to stow it in the back. My $10 Amazon baking mat doesn't have that problem. 

[PJClark]

2 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

My $10 Amazon baking mat

LMAO priceless

[M20F-1968]

I looked at the Amazon mats, and also did some digging around regarding different rubber materials.  Silicone was stated not to have good resistance to fuels based on what I saw.  I am a novice as to rubber chemistry.  Seems you would want good fuel resistance, antistatic, inflammable or flame resistant,  perhaps about 1/8" thick or less, adherence to metals (will not slip off wing), and light but not too light to be blown around.  Any rubber chemists around here?

John Breda

[bradp]

35 minutes ago, PJClark said:

LMAO priceless

I see your amazon mat and raise you 3x $2 dollar store cutting boards. 

[Hank]

46 minutes ago, bradp said:

I see your amazon mat and raise you 3x $2 dollar store cutting boards. 

I'll raise you the 6-year-old, razor sharp Swiss Army knife in my pocket right now to cut it with . . . . . 

[bradp]

Just now, Hank said:

I'll raise you the 6-year-old, razor sharp Swiss Army knife in my pocket right now to cut it with . . . . . 

Careful or you might raze it. 

[carusoam]

https://www.shinetsusilicone-global.com/catalog/pdf/rubber_e.pdf

Silicone makes an interesting polymer... like carbon chains, it’s has the ability to connect to four other atoms...

making it possible to have Si based life forms in place of carbon based life forms.... unfortunately.... those beings would weigh twice as much as similar humans...

28g vs 12g per mole... mw of Si vs C...

 

As far as thermal and electrical resistance... Silicone often gets these attributes compounded in... iron oxide is the typical additive for Very high temp silicone rubber...

Carbon black is the typical additive for improving electrical grounding...

As far as solubility or dissolving in gasoline... Silicone is not very resistant to gas.  It’s resistance isn’t very high, but it looks like it will absorb the gas in its polymeric structure and will swell in volume...

Expect that it will take lots of time to have that happen... be ready to wipe it off to not turn your new mat into a wavy flammable potato chip...  

PP thoughts only, not a polymer chemist...

Best regards,

-a- 

[Ross Taylor]

12 minutes ago, carusoam said:

PP thoughts only, not a polymer chemist...

Could have fooled me!

 

[carusoam]

Ross,

Doc John asked a serious and tough question...

I had to look up a really good, credible answer...

Best regards,

-a-

[jonhop]

@Vance Harral, great conversation starter. I fuel my J and continually find myself carefully putting my fuel caps on the wing next to the hole, which I am sure is damaging paint on the wing and cap.

Off-topic but I stumbled onto a post regarding protecting wings during annual with carpet. That prompted me to buy several 9' carpet runners to place on each wing and elevator during annual to keep tools, screws, and other annual related items in a convenient location while protecting the paint.

Back on topic, my first thoughts after reading your first post was about using grill mats--https://www.amazon.com/CHERAINTI-Grill-Mat-Non-Stick-Resistant/dp/B071RRCLMF/ref=sr_1_5?crid=32QJJO9A73ID8&dchild=1&keywords=bbq+baking+mats&qid=1589428099&s=home-garden&sprefix=bbq+baking+%2Cgarden%2C188&sr=1-5--such as this. I have smaller mats at home and they are thin, temperature stable and resilient to grease. They are light, easy to clean and roll up for easy storage. Thanks to @carusoam, I'll have to investigate the grill mats electrical and fuel absorption properties but they sure look like an electrical insulator to me.

13 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

The mats @Vance Harral suggested. I'll be fueling shortly and report back.

 

11 hours ago, MooneyMitch said:

Here’s my fuel mat.  

Fjord Aviation Products

Model AFP-183a, 18”x36”

1 800 880-3535

www.fjordav.com

I like this dimension as it covers the leading edge. Multiple colors available.

@gsxrpilot and @MooneyMitch, nice pictures of products you find valuable. Wouldn't rotating your mats 180° also help with spillage? It's been my accidental over exuberance in getting every last drop in the tank that I've observed that fuel flows towards the tail when the tank is overfilled. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by jonhop

[MooneyMitch]

27 minutes ago, jonhop said:

@Vance Harral, great conversation starter. I fuel my J and continually find myself carefully putting my fuel caps on the wing next to the hole, which I am sure is damaging paint on the wing and cap.

Off-topic but I stumbled onto a post regarding protecting wings during annual with carpet. That prompted me to buy several 9' carpet runners to place on each wing and elevator during annual to keep tools, screws, and other annual related items in a convenient location while protecting the paint.

Back on topic, my first thoughts after reading your first post was about using grill mats--https://www.amazon.com/CHERAINTI-Grill-Mat-Non-Stick-Resistant/dp/B071RRCLMF/ref=sr_1_5?crid=32QJJO9A73ID8&dchild=1&keywords=bbq+baking+mats&qid=1589428099&s=home-garden&sprefix=bbq+baking+%2Cgarden%2C188&sr=1-5--such as this. I have smaller mats at home and they are thin, temperature stable and resilient to grease. They are light, easy to clean and roll up for easy storage. Thanks to @carusoam, I'll have to investigate the grill mats electrical and fuel absorption properties but they sure look like an electrical insulator to me.

 

@gsxrpilot and @MooneyMitch, nice pictures of products you find valuable. Wouldn't rotating your mats 180° also help with spillage? It's been my accidental over exuberance in getting every last drop in the tank that I've observed that fuel flows towards the tail when the tank is overfilled. 

Thank you for your thoughts.

My reason for the mat is to protect paint from accidental scratches/dents, etc. from nozzle.

I chose the 36” length in order to prevent the fueling hose from accidentaly rubbing on the leading edge.

Just my little self imposed rule, I never place any item on my wings during maintenance or otherwise.  

 

[M20F-1968]

On 5/14/2020 at 12:40 AM, MooneyMitch said:

Thank you for your thoughts.

My reason for the mat is to protect paint from accidental scratches/dents, etc. from nozzle.

I chose the 36” length in order to prevent the fueling hose from accidentaly rubbing on the leading edge.

Just my little self imposed rule, I never place any item on my wings during maintenance or otherwise.  

 

You want to get some Moving Quilts to cover the wings when working on the plane.  Protects wings and keeps tools nearby.  Can be purchased inexpensively on e-bay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Packs-of-Heavy-Duty-Deluxe-Eco-Quilted-80-x-72-Storage-Furniture-Moving-Blankets/192865134004?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item2ce7a865b4:m:myocU-Ys_p3r9UG5kRQjrWg&enc=AQAEAAACYIQvEcHUrT7nmUC3yY5qbPyaBN1nJEDYW8MyypsJPgXK4PLYVaIgu9w9Os2XtDHJeofFM1z0p75Tx%2FKzJZU9f5AzuBf43VTrWWFsLkZg2JVKkL9qTaHcfKj0WsP6EkOCFNJKDyBDU2KJoMyQ4MrX4%2FMequNeWxGtF8QDIgDndzeYyEcusNAchmmaoV5V9f6I1NepFXDTiBa6tO8zJnN8wVTg8q8a5HE0%2FK9hPNQ9WlH4sCx7kSmgHyOgIlBb8OjlXFtspVs2G82zeLNanfHd62JE276s5thTLiECv0nRloBimucLUuTOjn8Eq6DmILafNlrVqJlRD%2BuXQIVdDwo6ZlJiaOZwdMp5c%2FN6ATiVu%2BWOgv1XKqc3NUA5NVeAKh4dHsxl743fShzG%2FI%2B%2FzVN7eaksFE3WstyaHWeekArxiIXFd%2FdhOc%2FFWZ0ixrxHIEKZnk8qIby7Jul%2Fah3GPG09dfiZI2MEypqNd40VxWUVanF9%2F7olAiPfL%2Fp8UIH8gsTHDyEVMIU0Bb75gnWj9n1P8q95CB1bbYqhU5sy9RHDyOJjzc2GTEFCuzQ1%2FfBzNc7XIcq7QnSmlk3Tgf3tJwKu6KLT7IOPdcMP2DSJN2VfqaMQ0Tz2g63GVquyrcIMCqDMJWao1Fy5oxnzMVoB9XtkyYGsgTyRY%2BvHKu39CLSkrq9AV96IrFhWVj3IPDlzG1NburzmU9rxQVLM8mKDBFQQ8V5q%2FmOsLEwwNHivUcBWOJGMk6JiN13Qab%2Bf1bjO20QWOSe5Nar%2FNQivCHn0cix49B1n8hMl5uX4CTolO2I266d8&checksum=19286513400499f0df40295042f7b8ee2e9300c55fb6

John Breda

[Hank]

1 hour ago, M20F-1968 said:

You want to get some Moving Quilts to cover the wings when working on the plane.  Protects wings and keeps tools nearby.  Can be purchased inexpensively on e-bay.

Just need a good way to store two at the hangar. My last several moves, the drivers have donated one or two, I have a large box full in the garage. May still have an empty small box, just not sure how small the quilts will fold.

[tmo]

Hang them, tell people they are living art

[Ross Taylor]

About this size, folded.  Ironically I took that photo yesterday, but not for this thread.  I took it to mention the speakers in another thread about hangar contents.  But there she is, the trusty moving blanket.

[Jason 1996 MSE]

On 5/13/2020 at 9:54 AM, gsxrpilot said:

The mats @Vance Harral suggested. I'll be fueling shortly and report back.

I am in need of same.  Can we get a long-term update on these, please?  Thanks!

[MB65E]

On 5/13/2020 at 2:39 PM, gsxrpilot said:

One nice feature of these mats is that they roll up easily and small and yet don't seem to stay in that shape and they immediately go flat to the shape of the wing.

Pulling up to the fuel pump after my Angel Flight delivery of hospital supplies/PPE's today, we met the Boldmethod guys in their beautiful blue and silver SR23TT Clorox bottle. They had one of the large orange fuel mats you can get from Sporty's or AS. After fueling he was struggling to fold it up some way to stow it in the back. My $10 Amazon baking mat doesn't have that problem. 

How is Paul? Haven’t seen his name in a long time. I know several left the site a while back. Hope you are well!

-Matt

[Vance Harral]

Hard to believe it's been almost 5 years since the beginning of this thread.  Our partnership has been using the original silicone mat purchased by Paul the entire time, with no issues.  My PIREP below should be taken with a grain of salt, though, as our paint was terrible 5 years ago, and remains terrible today.  We're cheap that way.

The mat does appear to wrinkle just a little if you spill more than a drop or two of 100LL on it, and I was originally concerned this meant the 100LL was attacking the material and would eventually degrade it.  But if you simply wait for the fuel drips to evaporate, the mat goes back to its original shape, and there is no evidence of the material breaking down over the years.  I've stopped worrying about it.  Note that I have no data on G100UL, as we don't fly anywhere it's available at this time.

I do wish the mat was just a little longer on the long side, because with the hole for the fuel port cut as close as is reasonable to one edge, it doesn't quite hang over the leading edge of the wing when placed.  This means that while fueling, the fuel hose still rubs directly on the leading edge of the wing, unless you specifically support it with a second hand.  But the hose itself is rubber (or some rubber-like compound), and seems unlikely to damage paint, even if you have a nice paint job.  The mat definitely protects the wing against accidental dings with the fuel nozzle itself.

My favorite thing about the mat is just that it provides a place to set the Shaw cap (with all its scrapey appendages) while fueling.  I no longer worry about it sliding off in a breeze or after being bumped, and further scraping up our dime store paint job.  Worth it for that alone.

As for Paul, I've visited with him recently, and he's well as you might expect.  I helped him get a commercial certificate, CFI, and multi rating over the past few years.  He recently sold his 252, and is on to other flying adventures, with two taildraggers in his hangar.  He's actively using his certificates to teach and ferry airplanes, and I suspect he'll always be involved with the Mooney community, despite (for now) not being a Mooney owner.

[A64Pilot]

On 5/13/2020 at 8:16 PM, M20F-1968 said:

I looked at the Amazon mats, and also did some digging around regarding different rubber materials.  Silicone was stated not to have good resistance to fuels based on what I saw.  I am a novice as to rubber chemistry.  Seems you would want good fuel resistance, antistatic, inflammable or flame resistant,  perhaps about 1/8" thick or less, adherence to metals (will not slip off wing), and light but not too light to be blown around.  Any rubber chemists around here?

John Breda

Your right silicone is NOT oil or fuel resistant, if you put them on your car for radiator and heater hoses don’t let oil get on them and do not use Gunk to clean your engine.

However flurosilicone is very fuel resistant.

However I suspect that as fast as 100 LL evaporates that cheap baking etc mats would be fine, and if they deteriorate after a couple years they are still a deal.

The Gami fuel I have no idea but suspect that it would be even less tolerant to that.

[EricJ]

6 hours ago, Vance Harral said:

As for Paul, I've visited with him recently, and he's well as you might expect.  I helped him get a commercial certificate, CFI, and multi rating over the past few years.  He recently sold his 252, and is on to other flying adventures, with two taildraggers in his hangar.  He's actively using his certificates to teach and ferry airplanes, and I suspect he'll always be involved with the Mooney community, despite (for now) not being a Mooney owner.

Glad to hear it.   His was one of the voices I missed of people who have stopped posting here.

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

I die cut silicone .125

fuel resistant 

rinse off and roll back into plastic storage tube with caps .

We do custom die cutting in just a few days .

I have sold hundreds and we include them with our exterior chafe seals for the Beech single 

I have them listed on eBay 

I have made for Kingaire models and the Tbm 

FYI

I designed all chafe seals for all panels and inspection panels for the Beechcraft models .

There are various thickness of material used .

.025

.032

.050

This eliminates streaking when flying through rain and metal on metal.

i offer chafe material for the mooneys , but less than 1%
of the owners will install quality silicone chafe seal .

1” x .032

1-1/2 x .032

 

Edited January 26 by Gee Bee Aeroproducts