Emergency Gear Extension question

[Misbehaved]

My 66 E has electric gear.  One of the first steps in the emergency gear extension checklist is to pull the landing gear circuit breaker to off.  There seem to be two breakers there the black one that I would assume is the pullable one, and the red one.  For some reason though, I can't pull the black breaker.  Am I misunderstanding this system?  Is the engage lever intended to push the red breaker in or something (it doesn't, if I push the engage lever, it comes down and hits the red breaker, but then doesn't sit firmly enough against it to hold it in.)

Can someone please explain to me how this is supposed to work?

Poor quality picture attached.

Thanks for any help.

TJ

[skykrawler]

The button on the arc disengages the electric motor.  It should all be in the Airplane Flying Handbook.  You have to turn that crank 40 times or something.   Dude,  you need somebody to get checked out on that airplane.

[Misbehaved]

6 minutes ago, skykrawler said:

The button on the arc disengages the electric motor.  It should all be in the Airplane Flying Handbook.  You have to turn that crank 40 times or something.   Dude,  you need somebody to get checked out on that airplane.

You would think that it would be in the manual, but it isn't (I attached a picture of everything that the 66/67 E manual gives on the subject).  As far as check out, I am just waiting for the checkout pilot's schedule to open up, hopefully in the next couple of weeks, but I like to understand how everything works before I'm in the air with it.  So it looks like the only real question then is why the crank engage lever isn't adjusted so that it holds the red button down when the crank is engaged.

 

Thanks for your response.

[N201MKTurbo]

One thing they fail to mention is when the green light comes on QUIT CRANKING!

If you keep cranking you can actually bend things.

I was working on the plane once and I was underneath watching the mechanism and told my helper to crank until the green light comes on. I was watching and things started to bind up. I asked my helper if the green light was on. He said it came on a long time ago but the crank was still turning so he kept going.

[Misbehaved]

1 minute ago, N201MKTurbo said:

One thing they fail to mention is when the green light comes on QUIT CRANKING!

If you keep cranking you can actually bend things.

I was working on the plane once and I was underneath watching the mechanism and told my helper to crank until the green light comes on. I was watching and things started to bind up. I asked my helper if the green light was on. He said it came on a long time ago but the crank was still turning so he kept going.

That is indeed very helpful information.  Thank you!

[Marauder]

You would think that it would be in the manual, but it isn't (I attached a picture of everything that the 66/67 E manual gives on the subject).  As far as check out, I am just waiting for the checkout pilot's schedule to open up, hopefully in the next couple of weeks, but I like to understand how everything works before I'm in the air with it.  So it looks like the only real question then is why the crank engage lever isn't adjusted so that it holds the red button down when the crank is engaged.
 
Thanks for your response.

The emergency extension works as the manual describes. Was the plane put through a pre-purchase? That would have been a good time to learn how to use the emergency extension - when not in flight and on jacks.

The lever should move forward far enough to engage the disconnect. In addition to stopping the cranking when the green light comes on, another important point is not to try to retract the gear with the crank.

If you do this in flight, you should make sure the engagement lever is returned and the crank handle is stowed before pushing the breaker back in.

The black breaker that is labeled “landing gear” is the one that needs to be pulled. If you can’t pull it, then something is wrong with it.




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[Misbehaved]

31 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

The emergency extension works as the manual describes. Was the plane put through a pre-purchase? That would have been a good time to learn how to use the emergency extension - when not in flight and on jacks.

The lever should move forward far enough to engage the disconnect. In addition to stopping the cranking when the green light comes on, another important point is not to try to retract the gear with the crank.

If you do this in flight, you should make sure the engagement lever is returned and the crank handle is stowed before pushing the breaker back in.

The black breaker that is labeled “landing gear” is the one that needs to be pulled. If you can’t pull it, then something is wrong with it. 




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I think there must be something wrong with the circuit breaker.  It won't pull.  I'm going to have my mechanic come over this weekend to see why the breaker won't pull and figure out why the engage lever doesn't engage the red button (when you push it forward, it does depress the button, but then it comes back up just enough that the button is up again).  

 

Thanks for the help, it is appreciated.

[Marauder]

I think there must be something wrong with the circuit breaker.  It won't pull.  I'm going to have my mechanic come over this weekend to see why the breaker won't pull and figure out why the engage lever doesn't engage the red button (when you push it forward, it does depress the button, but then it comes back up just enough that the button is up again).  
 
Thanks for the help, it is appreciated.

Yeah, if the breaker looks like one of these, you should be able to pull them. The red button I believe should be full engaged when the lever is forward.




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[Misbehaved]

9 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

Yeah, if the breaker looks like one of these, you should be able to pull them. The red button I believe should be full engaged when the lever is forward.

\

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The breaker is that style.  I have highlighted it in the picture below (on the 66E, they didn't put the gear breaker up on the panel, at least not on mine).  All of the other breakers of that type in my plane pull easily, this one doesn't seem to want to pull at all.  

 

[Marauder]

The breaker is that style.  I have highlighted it in the picture below (on the 66E, they didn't put the gear breaker up on the panel, at least not on mine).  All of the other breakers of that type in my plane pull easily, this one doesn't seem to want to pull at all.  
 

That is a really weird place for that breaker. Don’t think I have ever seen one placed there. Almost looks like the plastic was cut and it was placed there.

Being right below the air vent, I wonder if some moisture got to it. I “exercise” my breakers periodically. Typical failure is they pop too easily. There are electronic cleaners that can be used on them. Hopefully your mechanic has some and spraying it will free it up. They aren’t that expensive.


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[Ragsf15e]

That is where mine is as well.  My manual extension looks exactly like yours.  68F.  Electric gear installed at the factory right after she was born.  

Not all mooney instructors are the same... I didn’t know any better on my checkout and the guy had me extend the gear manually... 40 cranks and no green.  40 more, no green.  40 more... oh, maybe try the engage lever?  40 more cranks... GREEN!  Great, now nust put up the gear handle.  Aaargghh!  Almost lost my left leg as the system wound back up still engaged.  That was with the unmodified gearing too.  Thegear came up in like .5 seconds.  That was the last time I flew with that Mooney Instructor.  Gear was not damaged.  

 

[Misbehaved]

Wowza, yeah that would get your attention, for sure!  Glad no damage from it, to you or the plane!

[carusoam]

Small details like that make you really want the specific Mooney CFI with all the E experience...

The 60s were an interesting time... Ralph Nader wasn’t yet an author... people were still smoking in their airplanes... 

Nader is about to go on tour again... his grand-niece was aboard the Ethiopian 737....

Best regards,

-a-

[Cyril Gibb]

On 3/22/2019 at 4:58 PM, Misbehaved said:

My 66 E has electric gear.  One of the first steps in the emergency gear extension checklist is to pull the landing gear circuit breaker to off.  There seem to be two breakers there the black one that I would assume is the pullable one, and the red one.  

That’s not factory original.  Someone has done a McGyver on it.  Looks like a relocated gear circuit breaker (from the panel) and maybe a normally closed push button in series to keep the gear motor from starting.  All bets take off until you open up the cover and start tracing the wiring.  It’s an odd location for those because the original gear wiring doesn’t run anywhere near the manual extension.

[Culver LFA]

42 minutes ago, Cyril Gibb said:

That’s not factory original.  Someone has done a McGyver on it.  Looks like a relocated gear circuit breaker (from the panel) and maybe a normally closed push button in series to keep the gear motor from starting.  All bets take off until you open up the cover and start tracing the wiring.  It’s an odd location for those because the original gear wiring doesn’t run anywhere near the manual extension.

McGyver must have been very busy, mine has the breakers located exactly the same as the above photo. 
Maybe Dugosh is McGyver??? Are these all manual to electric gear conversion airplanes?

Edited March 25, 2019 by Culver LFA
Added picture with trim panel removed

[Ragsf15e]

Yep, could be.  They are all exactly the same, so likely done at same place.  Don’t think it’s random.

[Ragsf15e]

On 3/24/2019 at 4:45 PM, Cyril Gibb said:

That’s not factory original.  Someone has done a McGyver on it.  Looks like a relocated gear circuit breaker (from the panel) and maybe a normally closed push button in series to keep the gear motor from starting.  All bets take off until you open up the cover and start tracing the wiring.  It’s an odd location for those because the original gear wiring doesn’t run anywhere near the manual extension.

While researching my first w&b, I found the original-337 for the gear mod. It was actually the first new w&b.  Done 1 week after the factory test flight.  The electric gear was done by Dugosh in Kerrville.  They must have done a bunch the exact same way.

[Ross Taylor]

My breaker is in exactly the same spot on my '66 E and there's no indication it wasn't factory.  On a related note, it seems that pulling the breaker is a back-up step to make extra-super sure the gear motor won't suddenly come into play.  The red switch/button seems to interrupt that circuit.  I found this out when my gear didn't come up this week.  Pressing and releasing that red button brought the gear up - I'm guessing the contacts were corroded or dirty... time to dig more there.

[Misbehaved]

Thanks everybody.  It was a bad breaker that was the culprit.  Once we removed it and got it to trip, it wouldn't reset, something has come apart inside.  Thanks to everybody for your responses, your helpfulness is appreciated!

 

TJ

[carusoam]

Great follow-up, TJ!

Best regards,

-a-

[Bob R]

On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 4:45 PM, Misbehaved said:

I think there must be something wrong with the circuit breaker.  It won't pull.  I'm going to have my mechanic come over this weekend to see why the breaker won't pull and figure out why the engage lever doesn't engage the red button (when you push it forward, it does depress the button, but then it comes back up just enough that the button is up again).  

 

Thanks for the help, it is appreciated.

The breaker has probably not been pulled in a long time. Use a lever or sorts or pliers with a some rubber in the jaws and pull straight out. Once you free it, it will be easier next time.

Bob