Double Check your Batteries are Secured after Annual

[Mooney_Allegro]

A few months ago I flew down to the good people at Mooney in Kerrville, TX to have them complete the tail Service Bulletin that came out in December.  During their work, they discovered both of my batteries were never secured by the screw down clamps and safety wired.  My #1 battery was all scratched up and gouged from bouncing around for 11 months and completely out of it's containment tray.  The battery had severly damaged at least 12 wires back in the avionics compartment, and the wires had to be replaced.  I was delayed 1 and 1/2 days at Mooney because of the wiring that needed to be replaced.  I was very lucky I didn't have a fire or some type of failure during the last 11 months while flying as high as 25,000 feet.

My annual last year was accomplished at a MSC that's been in business for 30+ years.  I use to live by the motto of "Trust, but Verify", now I just don't trust anymore.   It's sad that its come to that, but my experience is that some people just don't do their job, get distracted, and never finish the work properly.  All at the aircraft owner's expense, after paying $5,000+ for an annual.   There's been too many instances where I go in for maintenance, and they screw things up badly.  It's happened at every annual for the last 3 years.  When I speak to the owners or shop foreman, they advise me that their senior guys are retiring and it's hard to find anyone experienced.  At my last annual, I barely recognized anyone from the year before.   They tell me it's a big problem.  It didn't start out well, when the young mechanic working on my plane at my last annual last month tells me, "I incorrectly installed a part in a Cessna Centurion a few years ago, and it almost killed a family of four".   

I'm not trying to discredit MSC mechanics, I'm just trying to make owners aware that when the plane comes out of maintenance, there's a GOOD chance that something got put back incorrectly or forgotten.  WE are the last line of defense!

[M016576]

I have had similar experiences, at MSC’s and other shops...

why become an A&P, or A&P IA when you can make a similar paycheck as an auto mechanic.... apparently it’s not just young pilots that the GA world is having problems recruiting... its mechanics, too.  

Economies in both quality maintenance and cost efficiency could be found through scale, I think.... but that’s a different thread.

^totally subjective, I know...

[carusoam]

Thanks for sharing the pirep, Allegro.

Potentially, a Really strange WnB challenge, that far back... and or a major fire hazard...

 

Best regards,

-a-

[M016576]

Just now, carusoam said:

Thanks for sharing the pirep, Allegro.

Potentially, a Really strange WnB challenge, that far back... and or a major fire hazard...

 

Best regards,

-a-

Or structural issue... how much of a drop would it take to bounce a 30lb battery through 1/16” aluminum pop riveted to a light frame?

[StevenL757]

11 hours ago, Mooney_Allegro said:

A few months ago I flew down to the good people at Mooney in Kerrville, TX to have them complete the tail Service Bulletin that came out in December.  During their work, they discovered both of my batteries were never secured by the screw down clamps and safety wired.  My #1 battery was all scratched up and gouged from bouncing around for 11 months and completely out of it's containment tray.  The battery had severly damaged at least 12 wires back in the avionics compartment, and the wires had to be replaced.  I was delayed 1 and 1/2 days at Mooney because of the wiring that needed to be replaced.  I was very lucky I didn't have a fire or some type of failure during the last 11 months while flying as high as 25,000 feet.

My annual last year was accomplished at a MSC that's been in business for 30+ years.  I use to live by the motto of "Trust, but Verify", now I just don't trust anymore.   It's sad that its come to that, but my experience is that some people just don't do their job, get distracted, and never finish the work properly.  All at the aircraft owner's expense, after paying $5,000+ for an annual.   There's been too many instances where I go in for maintenance, and they screw things up badly.  It's happened at every annual for the last 3 years.  When I speak to the owners or shop foreman, they advise me that their senior guys are retiring and it's hard to find anyone experienced.  At my last annual, I barely recognized anyone from the year before.   They tell me it's a big problem.  It didn't start out well, when the young mechanic working on my plane at my last annual last month tells me, "I incorrectly installed a part in a Cessna Centurion a few years ago, and it almost killed a family of four".   

I'm not trying to discredit MSC mechanics, I'm just trying to make owners aware that when the plane comes out of maintenance, there's a GOOD chance that something got put back incorrectly or forgotten.  WE are the last line of defense!

Appreciate your comment about not slapping MSCs around, but this is is certainly not the first I've heard of an MSC performing shoddy work or failing to control quality properly.  Like you and others, I'm shocked this didn't cause serious damage to not only wiring, but had that battery broken loose, this may have caused severe airframe and structural damage.  Probably to the tune of tens and tens of thousands of dollars.

I had two separate - although minor - incidents with an MSC very early in the first year of ownership, and never went back to that shop.  I won't mention the shop or go into detail, but had the issues not been caught and addressed, each individually would have caused a much larger issue.  Glad you were able to catch it when you did.

Steve

[StevenL757]

12 hours ago, M016576 said:

Or structural issue... how much of a drop would it take to bounce a 30lb battery through 1/16” aluminum pop riveted to a light frame?

Was thinking the same thing.  I can't even imagine the damage it could have caused...

[Guest]

18 hours ago, Mooney_Allegro said:

A few months ago I flew down to the good people at Mooney in Kerrville, TX to have them complete the tail Service Bulletin that came out in December.  During their work, they discovered both of my batteries were never secured by the screw down clamps and safety wired.  My #1 battery was all scratched up and gouged from bouncing around for 11 months and completely out of it's containment tray.  The battery had severly damaged at least 12 wires back in the avionics compartment, and the wires had to be replaced.  I was delayed 1 and 1/2 days at Mooney because of the wiring that needed to be replaced.  I was very lucky I didn't have a fire or some type of failure during the last 11 months while flying as high as 25,000 feet.

My annual last year was accomplished at a MSC that's been in business for 30+ years.  I use to live by the motto of "Trust, but Verify", now I just don't trust anymore.   It's sad that its come to that, but my experience is that some people just don't do their job, get distracted, and never finish the work properly.  All at the aircraft owner's expense, after paying $5,000+ for an annual.   There's been too many instances where I go in for maintenance, and they screw things up badly.  It's happened at every annual for the last 3 years.  When I speak to the owners or shop foreman, they advise me that their senior guys are retiring and it's hard to find anyone experienced.  At my last annual, I barely recognized anyone from the year before.   They tell me it's a big problem.  It didn't start out well, when the young mechanic working on my plane at my last annual last month tells me, "I incorrectly installed a part in a Cessna Centurion a few years ago, and it almost killed a family of four".   

I'm not trying to discredit MSC mechanics, I'm just trying to make owners aware that when the plane comes out of maintenance, there's a GOOD chance that something got put back incorrectly or forgotten.  WE are the last line of defense!

That pretty scary.  

I’m curious if the batteries were still on the mounting studs?  They can be a challenge to hold the battery up while aligning to 2 studs to pass through the holes in the battery lid.

Clarence

[thinwing]

The concordes come with an 1/8 in aluminum strap that retains the battery so much easier to thread thru mounting studs...of course I’m talking about AGM batts that are not manifold vented like above illustration.The thing is ,both batteries are so visible thru their respective maintance hatches...it boggles my mine a mechanic would leave both batts not tied down.

 

 

 

 

 

[Hank]

8 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Besides the fact that I enjoy it, this is why I do owner-assisted everything when it comes to the maintenance of my airplane and all of the maintenance on my cars.  MSC means next to nothing to me.  It is all about the knowledge, experience, attention to detail, and work ethic of the guy or girl actually turning the wrenches.  I am so sorry this happened to your beautiful Acclaim, Dave, but I agree that it sounds as if it could have been much worse.  Thank you for sharing your story with us.  

Jim

I always have, too, until this year. My last IA retired, and the one I found doesn't allow it. This is Week #8, just got off the phone--I'll be lucky to get it back during Week #10. We got along well in the past, but he doesn't answer his phone or return calls, voicemails or texts. Right now,  I just want my freaking Mooney back! I'll find out the quality of work whenever it gets finished . . . . .

Always check your plane after maintenance. My most thorough preflight to date was after resealing both tanks, but this will be more so when the time comes. The Quality Manager at my first medical manufacturer had a sign behind her desk:  "In God We Trust. All Others Bring Data." The same thing applies here, except the data will be collected by my eyes and fingers.

[flight2000]

20 hours ago, Mooney_Allegro said:

When I speak to the owners or shop foreman, they advise me that their senior guys are retiring and it's hard to find anyone experienced.  At my last annual, I barely recognized anyone from the year before.   They tell me it's a big problem.  It didn't start out well, when the young mechanic working on my plane at my last annual last month tells me, "I incorrectly installed a part in a Cessna Centurion a few years ago, and it almost killed a family of four".   

I'm not trying to discredit MSC mechanics, I'm just trying to make owners aware that when the plane comes out of maintenance, there's a GOOD chance that something got put back incorrectly or forgotten.  WE are the last line of defense!

I hate dropping off my airplane for that reason, but have little choice unless I take off a week of work or just work on the weekends which usually means a month of down time for an owner assisted annual. 

When I hear the excuse from the shop highlighted above, I just remind them that the insurance claim after they kill someone for poor maintenance (if proven) will more than likely put them out of business, not to mention wreck the lives of a least one or more families along the way.   They are responsible for training and supervising their new hires, period.  I fail to believe they can't hire newly trained A&P's at a decent wage either.  Is the overhead for a shop charging $85-$100 an hour really that high?  Pay better and you'll get better help.  Treat them well and they won't leave for greener pastures at the first opportunity.  

The military trains 18 year olds how to maintain everything from nuclear reactors (scary, I know...) to helicopters, but they have adult supervision looking over their shoulder every step of the way before cutting them loose on their own.  It's not that hard to say here's the manual, you know and understand the basics, go replace/troubleshoot XYZ on N12345 and come get me when you: a. run into something you don't understand or b. finish the task and I can come check your work before continuing.   That's how I became very proficient at maintaining Apache's for the Army as a 19 year old.  My NCO's and Maintenance Warrant's were there to teach, guide, and inspect.  Same should hold true in any maintenance shop in the civilian sector. 

Another area of emphasis - the seats.  I picked up my Travel Air from it's annual and found both front seats were not installed correctly.  Mine aren't as bad as a Mooney, meaning I can still reach everything in the full back position and the seats won't come off the rails with the way they were designed.  I've gone through 10 annuals now as an owner and had the seats installed incorrectly twice in the Mooney, once in the Bonanza, and now once in the Travel Air.  Not a great average and this does nothing for my confidence with those shops, which I've never used again.  My current shop in Richmond is much, much better, but I'm paying for that with higher rates.  In the end, I'm actually okay with that because they've earned my confidence.  I still check on them though...  Sometimes we, the owners, are our own worst enemy because we tend to be really CSOB's sometimes...  

I also loved walking up to my Mooney and seeing the top cowling totally installed wrong with DZUS fasteners missing and/or not secured...apparently it takes some type of rocket science to get that sucker installed correctly....how hard is it to take a step back and say "that don't look right"......

Cheers,

Brian

   

[Mooney_Allegro]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

That pretty scary.  

I’m curious if the batteries were still on the mounting studs?  They can be a challenge to hold the battery up while aligning to 2 studs to pass through the holes in the battery lid.

Clarence

Hi Clarence,

Thanks for your diagram.  Stacey Ellis from Mooney advised me that the #1 battery was completely removed from the battery stud and tray.  Also, he advised me that the battery was nearly cut open from all the scratching and gouging over the last year from hitting the sharp edges of the containment area while operating in turbulence.   The #2 battery didn't have anything to secure it in place, but battery #2 just happened to stay in place. 

 From now on, after any maintenance, I go through the plane with a fine tooth comb to try to discover faulty maintenance.  So far, after this past annual, I found my Tanis heater was installed incorrectly (missing two important spacers required for the install) on Cylinder #2,  an upper large clamp that was turned the wrong way and chaffing into the rubber cowling frame,  numerous star washers missing from the MLG hub cap, and my engine logbook sticker stuck several pages after it should have been leaving several blank pages in between the last entry.  Not only this, the young mechanic couldn't start my plane to do a runup to get his initial readings on Day 1.    I had to show him how to start a TSIO-550G.  He also didn't know the max RPM drops or differential.   This mechanic also thought cylinder #2 was cylinder #1 until he figured it out the 2nd day (Continental and Lycoming number their cylinders differently).  I also had to advise the MSC to cover up my turbo for protection, which was exposed for several days without a dust cover in a very dusty environment.  My Cylinder #2 had to be replaced due to low compresson and they had the hoses off from turbo #1.  I wasn't happy that my turbo was exposed to dust and fiberglass shavings from the Cirrus next to my plane.  As an owner, I shouldn't have to discover these things and police the mechanics. 

During Day 2, I was told I couldn't be out on the floor to watch over my plane.  That's when during the next week I found they forgot to do certain things such as complete a gear retraction test with the nose wheel hubcap on, so they had to redo the gear retraction test.  Mooney had replaced my nose tire back in January, but installed the spacer on the wrong side of the tire, so when the tire retracted into the wheel well on the way back to NV, it scraped the hub badly and turned it from white to black, so that's why I noticed the plane was off of jacks with the hub missing I inquired as to why.  

[jasona900]

Goodness...   I just got my plane back from annual, and found a few small discrepancies (floorboard landing gear indicator light inop, cht probe not hooked up) but nothing like described above.  I have had a miserable result due to faulty maintenance on my previous Mooney resulting in the gear collapsing during taxi.   I still will not publicly drag that MSC's name through the mud on a forum like this... typically because I think maintenance "malpractice" is not the norm.  But maybe it is time to reconsider... should we start attaching names to the mechanics who are providing this substandard level of service?  If a doctor was going to preform a procedure on me, sure would be nice to know if he had a history of malpractice BEFORE it is too late.

 

 

[David_H]

I'm in the same plane as everyone else here (I don't own a boat). Check everything to the absolute best of your abilities after Annual... and hope for a lot of luck.

I watched a younger gentleman take out and reinstall screws on the outer avionics access panels as if it was a formula car at a Pit stop after the plane wouldn't pass a simple Pilot Pre-flight inspection. The IA was right there watching him. I cringed as I seen the screw gun being taken to the panel. I didn't realize how bad it was until I removed the panel myself to make sure all was as it should be last weekend. What a mess a few minutes with a screw gun can make. I'm not saying age has any bearing on quality... but the young gentleman could not have been much more than 20 years old and probably wasn't making anything remotely close to the shop rate. Hence, his "give a darn" factor was likely low.

The amount paid at annual time does not correspond to the quality of work performed. I'm still finding things that were missed and have grown extremely tired of finding things.

I haven't "outed the shop" publicly but am seriously beginning to question why I haven't.

Edited March 20, 2019 by David_H

[quik flite]

I have had excellent results with Weber’s at Lancaster Pa a Mooney Service Center , I hope as the older guys retire , they will take the time to show the next generation the things they learned. All maintenance if done properly requires a very smart, knowledgeable and diligent person willing to work fast and cheap (go figure)  I hope we can all continue to find good, safe places to get our planes worked on ...anyone can make mistakes, get distracted and forget.  Take the time to look things over...especially after maintenance ,  I must say unless something in that area needed worked on it would be easy to miss.

[larrynimmo]

I did an "owner assisted" annual on my plane....I removed all the covers and did a lot of the work...but I told my A&P that I wanted to check all the hardware and potential rub-through items before the panels went back on...he looked at me with a smile...I added its my life in this plane...he agreed.

 

 

 

 

[amillet]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

I always have, too, until this year. My last IA retired, and the one I found doesn't allow it. This is Week #8, just got off the phone--I'll be lucky to get it back during Week #10. We got along well in the past, but he doesn't answer his phone or return calls, voicemails or texts. Right now,  I just want my freaking Mooney back! I'll find out the quality of work whenever it gets finished . . . . .

Always check your plane after maintenance. My most thorough preflight to date was after resealing both tanks, but this will be more so when the time comes. The Quality Manager at my first medical manufacturer had a sign behind her desk:  "In God We Trust. All Others Bring Data." The same thing applies here, except the data will be collected by my eyes and fingers.

Our J model was dropped off for annual on 2/6/19 (3 month prior reservation). Not done yet. No major sqwaks.  Hoping to get it back this week

[carusoam]

Focus on giving good pireps... something we can easily do in public...

My favorite MSC in NJ ran into trouble when an MSer took his flying lawnmower there... the botched surgery was horrendous....

 

When needed, as in this case... the focus on the work not being done correctly is clearly the right thing to do... supply as much detail as you can... pics really help.

 

We have come to an interesting cross-road... there isn’t a guarantee that a reliable shop is going to stay reliable...

An annual inspection has become more of a chance for maintenance induced challenges...

 

What else can we do?

What is the best way to avoid the QC challenges?

 

I have done the owner assist quite often... takes a lot of time off work...

I have done the schedule time to see the plane before it gets closed up... (expect to pay for some hours for this)

I have done the drop it off and pick it up in a week... more times lately... 

The more hands off approach has a tendency to have things go unfinished... My M20C had a battery box not get bolted in place after a hands-off annual... Found it when I reviewed the work before taking it flying... the M20C is fairly easy to open a few things to get a good look at everything...

Expect letting your maintenance people know what you found is going to be helpful for everyone... Keep the anger, and disappointment under control for this... good practice for your negotiating skills for another project.

I have never been able to fire a shop or mechanic... I would run out of shops before i’m Done flying...  I want to go farther than Bennett did... mid eighties! 

We spend so much time educating our shops and mechanics... it isn’t going to be a solid idea to fire them...

 

Clarence is always invited to tell how he handles these situations... there is another side to this awful coin.  The Maintainers have the other side.

PP thoughts only, striving for the next answers...

[cbarry]

Is it too brash to ask the AP/IA if they stand behind their work enough to join you for a test flight after they’ve “returned the aircraft to service?”

Edited March 20, 2019 by cbarry
In correct grammar

[carusoam]

After doing the owner assist annual, I always invited the mechanic to come for the flight around the pattern... discussed early on...

More time to discuss things... get to know each other... build a professional relationship...

When you are genuinely interested about your plane, you can ask a lot of questions to people that like to give answers...

It May take some additional skill to not be brash...  

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

23 minutes ago, amillet said:

Our J model was dropped off for annual on 2/6/19 (3 month prior reservation). Not done yet. No major sqwaks.  Hoping to get it back this week

I went the last week of Jan. There's a chance he will finish the "no major squawks" annual before I leave town on 2 April for the rest of the week. But I've given up being hopeful . . . .

Best of luck for you next week. I'm already IA shopping for next year, I just don't know what month it will be due. Midwinter Jan was nice while it lasted, I didn't lose much good flying weather at all. Only took six years to walk it there from July when I first bought it. Does Joey Cole allow owner assist? The vacation time would be worth saving two-and-a-half months compared to this year.

Sorry for the derail. Back to our regularly scheduled maintenance thread. Check everything after maintenance. Closely. Just like ATC, your A&P / IA is less worried, because he is sitting on the ground in a comfortable chair . . . . .

<yes, I'm suffering from a severe lack of altitude>

[jasona900]

..since this can of worms has now been opened...  I was curious to hear the quorum's thoughts on periodic updates during annual.  I will say, that the manager of the shop that caused my gear to collapse on my prior Mooney had by far the most outstanding level of communication I had ever experienced by any shop, for any machine repair.  He would call me daily, sometimes multiple times with updates.  I loved it.  I felt like I knew exactly what was happening, and when they went past their promised schedule by one week to replace my exhaust, I found that perfectly acceptable.  Not a surprise because the lines of communication were so great.  It is unfortunate the story ended how it did..

Other shops have been exactly the opposite, to include some of the countries biggest MSCs.  I get it, that these shops are busy, and they really should focus on fixing the airplanes.  But there is a customer service aspect here too.  We are spending A LOT of money during our annual inspections...is it too much to ask for a weekly update?  Or even a text.  I think it is unsat to go a month without an update, or to feel like you are "bothering your mechanic" asking for one.  A lot of us are not fortunate enough to live near our favorite maintenance facility.  It requires time off work, asking friends for rides, expensive airline tickets, or long drives in rental cars to pick up our airplanes after annual.  For me, that takes planning...and the closer to pickup I have to plan, the greater the personal and financial inconvenience. 

[HRM]

I just finished my first owner-assisted annual and the experience was enlightening. The reality is that my annuals had been going downhill for the last few years so I decided to take things into my own hands, so to speak.

Frankly, A&Ps are sadly underpaid, especially those who work on piston A/C. Mercedes mechanics make more than they do, and they work in near spotless conditions surrounded by special tools and analyzers. So, no big surprise that 'things happen' with a vintage Mooney.

The major thing I found with the annual is two sets of eyes. The friend supervising me was just a hawk about spotting stuff and I was very happy to do all the tedious stuff as I found it both therapeutic and satisfying! Now I know where everything is, I know all the right screws went back where they belong, etc., etc.. I remain in awe at the complexity of the thing. I think I stared for an hour at the workings under the belly panels. Who knew how clever those mechanical engineers could be?

I cannot even begin to imagine how horrible it would be to do this on a day-in/day-out basis. I will be ready to do it again A YEAR FROM NOW, but if another one was staring me in the face next week, well, take this job and shove it.

Lastly, there is a danger in an owner being his own mechanic (sort of like the physician that tries to heal himself or the attorney who tries to defend himself) that is why two sets of eyes works so well. On the other hand, knowing your bird means that there should not be any squawks come annual time. Once you know what to look for, you should be looking for it and taking care of it right away.

[thinwing]

Wow..I’m reading about all these annual inspections running multiple week / months.Is the all deferred maintance ?An annual inspection should take 30 hours not rebuild the aircraft!,

[Mooney_Allegro]

3 hours ago, quik flite said:

I have had excellent results with Weber’s at Lancaster Pa a Mooney Service Center , I hope as the older guys retire , they will take the time to show the next generation the things they learned. All maintenance if done properly requires a very smart, knowledgeable and diligent person willing to work fast and cheap (go figure)  I hope we can all continue to find good, safe places to get our planes worked on ...anyone can make mistakes, get distracted and forget.  Take the time to look things over...especially after maintenance ,  I must say unless something in that area needed worked on it would be easy to miss.

I've also had excellent results with Weber Aircraft, a MSC in Lancaster, PA.  I've had 2 annuals there with my former 98 J model, and when the plane was returned to me, the work was all flawless.  Not one issue.  My step-father, who owned the plane before me, always used Weber, and NEVER had an issue with them.  A few of their outstanding mechanics were: Jeff (older guy with unmistakable white hair), Troy (forgot his last name, but he's one of the younger guys, and the maintenance director (retired) Dorn Clare.  I can't say enough positive about these people.  It's been 4 years now since I've been up there, so I'm out of touch with who's there and who's gone.  It's a little too far to fly for an annual now, but I think of them every year.  Another great shop for your propeller is Sensenich Propellers right next door to Weber.  The guy that overhauls your prop, Bill Robbins was trained at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, and has many years under his belt as A&P working on all sorts of GA planes.  He's probably an IA, but I'm not sure, but he's a true professional and cares about his work.  

[Hank]

6 hours ago, thinwing said:

Wow..I’m reading about all these annual inspections running multiple week / months.Is the all deferred maintance ?An annual inspection should take 30 hours not rebuild the aircraft!,

I agree. The quote on my C was 18 hours and "the end of next week" (by 8 Feb). He found a few minor issues and I agreed to 5-6 additional hours, mostly in 1/4 hour increments. But he doesn't answer his phone; he infrequently responds to voicemails and texts, and now says he won't be able to finish it by the end of next week (29 March).

IFR Currency is gone. Flight with passengers currency is gone. He knows a way to rig my ailerons after replacing rod ends without having access to Mooney travel boards, that isn't shown in the printed Maintenance Manual that I provided when I left the plane. So now I need to visit an MSC, but I can't make an appointment because who know when (if?) he will get done . . . .

This is my first and last "drop the plane off" annual. I'll let it expire and get a ferry permit if necessary to go somewhere for owner assisted if I have to!

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. And yeah, my attitude has gone to hell.