Manual to electric gear conversion M20C

[Shadrach]

1 minute ago, Yetti said:

I have 2 documented cases about "they guy on the west coast"  One more and it is a verified trend.  And I have pictures I can send to the National Enquirer.

Post them here first! It’s only fair given that the content posted on this forum is “usually” better vetted than that of the National Enquirer. 

I say usually because when it comes to  topics like “IO hot starts” and “Jbar clubbings” the Enquirer may have higher standards...

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

You mean downlock block, I assume?   Good advice.  LASAR’s PMA’d part is the way to go.  

FWIW, I never had any problems whatsoever hot starting my previous J.

Jim

I’ve never had a problem hot starting any injected aircraft engine unless something was malfunctioning.

Edit - I should say the same goes for carburetted aircraft engines

Edited March 12, 2019 by Shadrach

[Yetti]

10 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Post them here first! It’s only fair given that the content posted on this forum is “usually” better vetted than that of the National Enquirer. 

I say usually because when it comes to  topics like “IO hot starts” and “Jbar clubbings” the Enquirer may have higher standards...

I did post it.   Just helped another member through the exact same issue at George's with "oh that does not look good, You are going to need another one of those unobtainium E gear actuators" 

 

 

[Shadrach]

44 minutes ago, Yetti said:

I did post it.   Just helped another member through the exact same issue at George's with "oh that does not look good, You are going to need another one of those unobtainium E gear actuators" 

 

 

I was referring to photo evidence of "split skin" from a Jbar.  I am glad that you got it sorted and that you've had no gear issues in the last 3 years.  If you take the number of years you've enjoyed trouble free gear operation and multiply it times 17 you'll have the number of years that we've enjoyed trouble free gear operation.  Still waiting on the Jbar carnage.

[gsxrpilot]

11 hours ago, Culver LFA said:

What about the bent j-bars, the worn downlock blocks, the j-bars slamming up while in cruise unexpectedly, the sticky handles not engaging as your just clearing the trees...

The 'complex' in complex airplane isn't necessarily the operational procedures, I think it's more the complexity of the wear and tear/maintenance!

All solved by the most minimal of basic inexpensive maintenance. 

[kris_adams]

13 hours ago, Hank said:

Then I would miss out on laughing heartily at all of the "my engine won't start when it's hot, what do I do?" threads! Me, i just open the throttle a little, push mixture all the way forward, turn the key and push . . . .

Not to hijack the thread but...Maybe I'm just lucky...My dad's 69F was a bugger to start hot but my 79J starts slick as a whistle hot.  I don't do any weird tricks to do it either.  Starts hot pretty much as easily as cold.

to stay on topic...his 69 had electric gear lol

[Shadrach]

14 hours ago, Culver LFA said:

What about the bent j-bars, the worn downlock blocks, the j-bars slamming up while in cruise unexpectedly, the sticky handles not engaging as your just clearing the trees...

The 'complex' in complex airplane isn't necessarily the operational procedures, I think it's more the complexity of the wear and tear/maintenance!

Yes, the $390 down-block needs to be replaced at 3000-4000 hrs depending on number of retractions.  The other stuff is mostly myth as far as I can tell in my 13 years and 800ish hours of Mooney time almost, exclusively in the manual gear birds.  Firstly, the J-bar does not slam into anything... In the rare event that the J-bar is not properly locked in place, the bar will gently rise from the floor and "float" between 40° and 60°.  The gear is engineered so that the bungees make the gear neutral at  the center of the J-bar's arc.  The bungees help lighten the gear as it's driven towards the floor (Up-block) where the pilot has the least amount of leverage.  The gear is heaviest near the down-block because of gravity. Fortunately this is the area of the arc where the pilot has the most leverage (pulling away from the panel).  IF, and I mean IF the the J-bar is disengaged from the down-block and is accidentally released in the first few degrees of travel, the J-bar will move back towards the down-block and may even hit it or reengage the block.  What it will never...ever...ever do is swing through the cabin like a club bruising, breaking and splitting anything in its path. That is complete and total horse excrement.  The J-bar is a made from very robust tubing. I believe that it can be bent but my suspicion is that the issue is caused by attempts to lock the gear up or down with FOD sandwiched against the floor or the wheel well and not from it "slamming" into anything... unless it becomes disengaged from the down-lock on landing...then you might have a club in the cabin.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Shadrach

[Shadrach]

2 hours ago, Kris_Adams said:

Not to hijack the thread but...Maybe I'm just lucky...My dad's 69F was a bugger to start hot but my 79J starts slick as a whistle hot.  I don't do any weird tricks to do it either.  Starts hot pretty much as easily as cold.

to stay on topic...his 69 had electric gear lol

I have seen first hand people struggle starting injected aircraft.   When I was a line boy I extinguished an exhaust fire that was the result of priming a hot engine.  At shut down just set the RPM to the desired idle speed and pull mixture to idle cut off.  when ready to start, turn the key...  

[skydvrboy]

I finally had a reason to use the "Mooney dip" on my last flight.  I was doing touch and goes before deciding to go to a different airport.  I noticed the plane wasn't accelerating in cruise like normal and noticed the gear was still down at 115 MPH.  Yeah, at that speed, raising the gear was difficult, but I remembered the "dip" technique.  A slight push forward on the yoke and the gear nearly put itself away.  Sweet!!!

[Yetti]

48 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

I have seen first hand people struggle starting injected aircraft.   When I was a line boy I extinguished an exhaust fire that was the result of priming a hot engine.  At shut down just set the RPM to the desired idle speed and pull mixture to idle cut off.  when ready to start, turn the key...  

My hanger is close to the FBO.   It's very painful to hear the grinding and grinding of the starter.   It is fun to watch the Grumpy IA when someone is struggling to start.  It's like a wincing anguish.  like you are squeezing a rabbit   I have no fear of the hot start.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Yetti

[ShermAv8tor]

Wow this thread is really going like wild fires in California! 

So back to the conversion quesstion & why…I’ve sold the plane and I’m doing the annual for the new buyers AFTER they had an independent shop do the prebuy…get that out of the way before that goes off the rails on here…so the buyers are at my hangar & it’s on jacks and they ask…can we try to swing the gear? Sure! One of them had a hell of a time doing it, so they asked about converting…reason for the post…but like I said I was doing the annual and before the guy tried to do the gear swing I had just finished up inspecting belly, jbar, etc. I had pushed the boot up on the jbar to get it out of the way for inspection…don’t think I pulled it back down, belly panels installed, I’m focusing on annual they are focusing on new to them plane, sooooooo…I think the boot may be binding up in the flor area which is why he couldn’t lock the bar in…poor guy…first experience…anyway I won’t know for sure till I get back from vacation next week to look! Thanks for all the info & we will see where this goes…

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, ShermAv8tor said:

Wow this thread is really going like wild fires in California! 

So back to the conversion quesstion & why…I’ve sold the plane and I’m doing the annual for the new buyers AFTER they had an independent shop do the prebuy…get that out of the way before that goes off the rails on here…so the buyers are at my hangar & it’s on jacks and they ask…can we try to swing the gear? Sure! One of them had a hell of a time doing it, so they asked about converting…reason for the post…but like I said I was doing the annual and before the guy tried to do the gear swing I had just finished up inspecting belly, jbar, etc. I had pushed the boot up on the jbar to get it out of the way for inspection…don’t think I pulled it back down, belly panels installed, I’m focusing on annual they are focusing on new to them plane, sooooooo…I think the boot may be binding up in the flor area which is why he couldn’t lock the bar in…poor guy…first experience…anyway I won’t know for sure till I get back from vacation next week to look! Thanks for all the info & we will see where this goes…

He really should try it in the air before doing the conversion.  Easy to raise below 90mias and easy to lower at 120mias. Doing it on jacks is not the same.

[ShermAv8tor]

I agree & explained that to him!