Tach time as hobbs etc.

[jetdriven]

4 hours ago, vorlon1 said:

Good question for me as well. Purchased a C model earlier this year that didn't have a Hobbs meter. I'm so used to having that to assist in recording log time... Never thought I'd miss a Hobbs meter!

Buy a hobbs meter. It saves you cost in airframe time and it adds logbook (FAR part 1 PIC time) to your log book.  For 40$, it pays for itself in two flights.

[Hank]

2 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Buy a hobbs meter. It saves you cost in airframe time and it adds logbook (FAR part 1 PIC time) to your log book.  For 40$, it pays for itself in two flights.

How does installing a Hobbs save any money? I do maintenance by Tach hours and log flight time by either the yoke clock or my watch. Logged flight time ALWAYS exceeds tach time . . . . So how does spending money to duplicate my redundant yoke clock and watch do anything for me at all, besides cost money to purchase and more money to install??? It's already easy enough to forget to write the number down after every flight when I'm looking at it, much less when it's buried behind the back seat somewhere.

[kortopates]

How does installing a Hobbs save any money? I do maintenance by Tach hours and log flight time by either the yoke clock or my watch. Logged flight time ALWAYS exceeds tach time . . . . So how does spending money to duplicate my redundant yoke clock and watch do anything for me at all, besides cost money to purchase and more money to install??? It's already easy enough to forget to write the number down after every flight when I'm looking at it, much less when it's buried behind the back seat somewhere.

Agreed, I thought Byron just mixed them up. It's the Mooney Hour Meter or Tach time that we use for maintenance that saves us money. The EI RPM tach unit is an excellent replacement for the Mooney OEM tach or Mooney hour meter but the EDM, Horizon tach or a Hobbs will all inflate your maintenance times and thus cost.

 

A multitude of methods can be used to record pilot flight time for logging. I just write down start up and shutdown time off my watch. GPS can record both power up time and takeoff time - but power up time is closer to what we want for logging flight time.

 

All my data goes into an Excel spreadsheet which makes it easy to track maintenance intervals etc

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ilovecornfields]

7 hours ago, EricJ said:

I have a JPI EDM900 and I kept my mechanical tach, since the logbook was already consistent with that number and it's a nice backup.     I usually cruise around at about 2500 rpm, so the tach, which records real time at 2400 rpm, runs faster than real time by about 4%. 

I use the Avare EFB, which will log the entire flight and will email me a .kml file of the gps samples starting from when the airplane begins moving until it stops moving, which is consistent with the FAA definition of time.   Loading that file into mymaps.google.com gives me a graphical depiction and I can compare the beginning and end times to get the total loggable flight time.

My EDM and the Avidyne 540 will also log time, but I never remember to use them, while Avare will automatically send me an email with the kml file at the end of each flight.

I wish there was a smoother way.   At some point the airplane avionics will automatically update our electronic logbook every time we fly, but we do not seem to be to that point yet.

 

ForeFlight does this already. Stores your flight track and creates an electronic logbook entry that you can modify and approve. Takes less than a minute to log the flight. You can then export it into CloudAhoy and see how you did on your takeoff and landing distances. I always touchdown right on the numbers but others may want to see how far they float...

[RLCarter]

I use "Tach" time for the aircraft and my watch for me. There is also a Hobbs meter that is powered by the Master switch.

[Raptor05121]

My Hobbs is actuated off of the master switch. It's usually 0.2 higher than tach on all flights. I track Hobbs/Tach and oil/fuel burn down to a tenth.

[1964-M20E]

I finally understand it.  Those here who are overly concerned about what time to put where and how to measure it, must have too much time on their hands and nothing else to do.

It is not that critical folks the tachometer keeps the time for the aircraft, you keep the time for your log book.  It is your log book log the time you feel is correct for the flight.  Should you put 2 hours and the actual start to shutdown was 1:45 nobody really cares.  The next flight it just maybe the opposite or you forgot to put down that little flight around the patch that was 15 to 20 minutes.  If you have a hobbs meter great but if you are not renting the plane out it is immaterial.  KISS

I have a spread sheet that keeps track of maintenance items and tracks times of components I wish to keep track of.  I take the tach time once every 2 to 3 months enter it into the spreadsheet and it does the rest for me.  I have owned 2 airplanes and neither has had a Hobbs meter.  I have never missed it even when I had someone else flying the plane.

JMHO

[steingar]

10 hours ago, jetdriven said:

Buy a hobbs meter. It saves you cost in airframe time and it adds logbook (FAR part 1 PIC time) to your log book.  For 40$, it pays for itself in two flights.

In which universe can you get something installed in an airplane for $40?  I couldn't get someone to wash the bugs off my spinner for that.

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, 1964-M20E said:

I finally understand it.  Those here who are overly concerned about what time to put where and how to measure it, must have too much time on their hands and nothing else to do.

It is not that critical folks the tachometer keeps the time for the aircraft, you keep the time for your log book.  It is your log book log the time you feel is correct for the flight.  Should you put 2 hours and the actual start to shutdown was 1:45 nobody really cares.  The next flight it just maybe the opposite or you forgot to put down that little flight around the patch that was 15 to 20 minutes.  If you have a hobbs meter great but if you are not renting the plane out it is immaterial.  KISS

I have a spread sheet that keeps track of maintenance items and tracks times of components I wish to keep track of.  I take the tach time once every 2 to 3 months enter it into the spreadsheet and it does the rest for me.  I have owned 2 airplanes and neither has had a Hobbs meter.  I have never missed it even when I had someone else flying the plane.

JMHO

Interesting perspective. Technically you don't need to record your flight time unless you intend to continue on to other ratings where certain flight time requirements must be met (cross country for IFR, total hours for ATP, etc.). Of course, our insurance company is interested in our flight experience and as well an estimate asked for on the medical form.

With the introduction of ADS-B, there certainly is now a tracking of flight time for a plane. 

[jetdriven]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

Interesting perspective. Technically you don't need to record your flight time unless you intend to continue on to other ratings where certain flight time requirements must be met (cross country for IFR, total hours for ATP, etc.). Of course, our insurance company is interested in our flight experience and as well an estimate asked for on the medical form.

With the introduction of ADS-B, there certainly is now a tracking of flight time for a plane. 

Not really. FAR part 1 flight time is defines as brakes release with purposes of flight and ends when it comes to rest after landing.  An oil pressure hobbs meter approximates that pretty well. A clock can too, but a hobbs records and accumulates, its easier to verify.  This matters most when you finally get that Baron you always wanted, and since you have 469 hours, its not the 500 they require, and your insurance is 7k a year instead of 3500$. 

[Mooneymite]

The airlines are also interested in such things as "block time" and "flight time".  In the golden/olden days, the pilots kept the records, but since their pay was dependent on these times, the airlines quickly found they didn't always record them "precisely".  

Over the years, the airlines went to ACARS.  Flight time was pretty simple:  WOW (weight on wheels), but block time was slippery-er.  Some used oil pressure on the #1 engine, some used the beacon, some used main cabin door switches, or a combination of these.  In addition, now the engine and component times are tracked electronically by a myriad of computers and diagnostic boxes.  With pilot pay and regulations dictating component time-in-service, time keeping has become a technology unto itself!

 

[Marauder]

28 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Not really. FAR part 1 flight time is defines as brakes release with purposes of flight and ends when it comes to rest after landing.  An oil pressure hobbs meter approximates that pretty well. A clock can too, but a hobbs records and accumulates, its easier to verify.  This matters most when you finally get that Baron you always wanted, and since you have 469 hours, its not the 500 they require, and your insurance is 7k a year instead of 3500$. 

I think we are saying the same thing. There are tons of ways to record flight time per CFR 1.1. My second point was about a few instances where a pilot was falsifying flight time. I am aware of one ambitious pilot who was trying to build time towards his ATP by flying a pen instead of a plane. Not sure how much retention of the ADS-B track data the FAA keeps and if they are even interested in tracking it, but it is now electronically available.

[RobertGary1]

Hobbs for pilot logs tach for aircraft logs. 

-Robert

Edited October 23, 2018 by RobertGary1

[Hank]

2 hours ago, Marauder said:

I think we are saying the same thing. There are tons of ways to record flight time per CFR 1.1. My second point was about a few instances where a pilot was falsifying flight time. I am aware of one ambitious pilot who was trying to build time towards his ATP by flying a pen instead of a plane. Not sure how much retention of the ADS-B track data the FAA keeps and if they are even interested in tracking it, but it is now electronically available.

But it won't include ground time. I've spent 15-20 minutes on the ground, waiting to go, and since I had started moving a mile back, it all counted as flight time.

[Mooneymite]

4 minutes ago, Hank said:

But it won't include ground time. I've spent 15-20 minutes on the ground, waiting to go, and since I had started moving a mile back, it all counted as flight time.

One day flying from ORD to MDW, we had almost 45 minutes block time, but 0.1 (6 mins.) flight time.  Yes, there can be a significant difference.  

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, Mooneymite said:

One day flying from ORD to MDW, we had almost 45 minutes block time, but 0.1 (6 mins.) flight time.  Yes, there can be a significant difference.  

That sounded like a fun "flight"  Holding for release at Santa Monica 3 times so far, my average hold has been 30 minutes

[NotarPilot]

On 10/23/2018 at 5:23 AM, steingar said:

In which universe can you get something installed in an airplane for $40?  I couldn't get someone to wash the bugs off my spinner for that.

I’m your huckleberry 

[eman1200]

I’ve also found 1.2 x tach time is pretty close to actual flight time. But I also cross reference with any number of other methods:

-Check garmin pilot auto logging
-Check flight aware flight tracking
-Check watch (I almost always log start up time but regularly forget to jot down landing/shutdown time)
-gtx345 has a flight timer function. “Use it”, is what I keep telling myself.
-ask passenger “how long was I napping for?” and add that time in as well.