Mooney M20J VS Bonanza V tail or F33

[jwilcoxon78]

36 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

Or get a TBM and have a 3rd and 4th

I think at this point in our lives, that would be an either/or scenario.  Those 930s are phenomenal machines. 

[smccray]

22 minutes ago, jwilcoxon78 said:

I think at this point in our lives, that would be an either/or scenario.  Those 930s are phenomenal machines. 

Call me crazy but I'd take the 910 over the 930- I prefer buttons!

[DavidJ18]

@steingar with all do respect this is not a stupid question. This is just a debate between all the pilot who flew or had Bonanza. Everyone is you're entitled to their opinion. Obviously both airplane have a different power-plant engine. 

@Alan Fox, thank you for input. Greatly appreciate it. Would you think maintenance, insurance, annual cost of Bonanza V would be more than J? And would you know which one would hold its value higher in a long run? Thanks 

[carusoam]

Somebody is going to end this thread due to shear madness, craziness, and economic lunacy... 

The people on this site that own Brand B and Brand P, Are So committed to aviation, they also own more than one plane...

Their dedication to aviation, extends out into the work that they do...

And,  In their spare time, they are great technical writers on MS.   

Aviation, 24/7!  Way to set the bar!

 

There is nothing wrong with the question.  Just the environment that it is getting asked in... expect some bias...

 

What I get out of this thread... The long body, not the J, is probably DJ’s interest...

Now the next question... Turbo or NA engine to go with that?

Focus on what DanB has to say... His Bravo is a spectacular cruising machine... Single plane ownership, No mechanical background required.... tremendous cruising range with options...

For two people, 130 gallons goes pretty far...

For four people, The Bravo can go longer than the four people....

Speed, Efficiency, Added layers of safety available, Go Mooney!

I’m a NA kind of guy... went IO550....

Best regards,

-a-

 

[flight2000]

2 hours ago, mooneyflyfast said:

Are you saying that a bonanza is more stable than a Mooney?  If so I disagree.. Mooney does not have the dutch roll that Bonanzas do and if you are hand flying in imc conditions and divert your attention to  look for your pencil or program an approach on the GPS you dont find yourself in a steeply banked dive at red line like you might in a Bonanza.

I've driven both in IMC (my previous 67 M20E and now my 68 E33A).  Haven't seen a tendency to dutch roll, but the Mooney does take more force to turn, so there is that built in advantage.  Both of my aircraft are/were stable in IMC.  I didn't see a discernable difference.

On long trips, the Bo wins hands down for me.  Anything over two hours and my butt would start to cramp up in the Mooney and the back seaters would start to chirp about stopping.  No issues with that in the Bonanza and we recently knocked out a trip from Richmond, VA to Chicago with no stops (or squawks from the two in the back ).  There is a huge difference in HOW you sit in the front seats, which is what I believe makes the biggest difference for my comfort..

@Alan Fox is correct about not letting the wife sit in the back of one.  I did that when we were shopping for a "bigger" plane and she slapped me in the back of the head the first time she sat in the back of an F33A, plus she saw the loading technique difference with the big baggage door compared to the lift and drop for the Mooney.  I really wanted to stay with the Mooney line, but ultimately ended up in a Bonanza (or Debonair on steroids for the Beech purists out there).

Baggage compartment max for the Bo = 270 pounds.  Baggage Compartment Max for ANY Mooney = 120 pounds.

Don't get me wrong, I miss the efficiency of the Mooney at times.  The Bo just does more of what I needed.  With the way we pack, I'll run out of fuel before I run out the back end of the CG envelope.

I built this comparison between my two birds if anyone is interested.

http://67m20e.com/e33a-vs-m20e.html

Oh, one last thing - I have the single, throw over yoke so getting in and out is easier and there is less to play with while in flight...good or bad... 

Cheers,

Brian

[flight2000]

30 minutes ago, carusoam said:

The people on this site that own Brand B and Brand P, Are So committed to aviation, they also own more than one plane...

Best regards,

-a-

I only own one, thanks....  

Brian

[gsxrpilot]

The situation was different with my wife. We used to be partners in an F33A. But she knew that everything about that plane was more expensive and felt she was just as comfortable in the Mooney at much lower costs. Which made her even more comfortable.

Thanks to a "low maintenance" wife, I can afford more airplane. But she needs to know/think it's economical.

[flight2000]

Paul,

I keep hearing that Bonanza's or Beech in general is more expensive to maintain.  After owning both, I just haven't seen it yet.  I am painfully aware that my engine overhaul will be more expensive due to the extra jugs, but routine stuff has been on par between the two I've owned.

Having said that, buying the right plane (any make)  that has been taken care of is critical.  There are some real dogs out there that will eat your wallet, house, and then some if you choose poorly.   

My wife slapped me because she has acres of space in the back compared to the M20E, nothing more...   

Brian

Edited March 31, 2018 by flight2000

[DavidJ18]

@gsxrpilot  how much more expensive on maintenance and annual on F33 Vs J on average ? Thanks 

[DanM20C]

25 minutes ago, DavidJ18 said:

@gsxrpilot  how much more expensive on maintenance and annual on F33 Vs J on average ? Thanks 

David,  I think Brian said it best above.  " Having said that, buying the right plane (any make)  that has been taken care of is critical." 

I think the maintenance and annuals will be very close if the airplanes are clean and well maintained. ALL airplanes have expensive parts that can fail/break.  You will have the best luck (maintenance cost wise) finding a well maintained and frequently flown airplane. 

@flight2000 That is a gorgeous E33!

Cheers,

Dan

[DavidJ18]

@DanM20C yes, you're right about that. My upgrade would be from piper arrow. I'm more leaning Mooney M20J because majority of the time it would be me and two other people and the J can definitely accommodate that.  Everyone are 100% right, Bonanza are true 4 sitters and going 10-15 knots faster than J obviously you're paying for the extras like fuel and the TBO of them is about 1700 vs 2000 on the Mooney.   

[flight2000]

David,

Don't get wrapped up too much in the TBO numbers unless you're going Part 135 with your bird where it does matter.  They are just numbers for part 91 ops. 

Seen plenty of Continentals and Lycoming's go well past TBO before needing overhaul if you run them right.  Jugs on Continental's seem to require overhaul after about 1000 hours, but even that's a crap shoot depending on who did the work.  I have 3 unmolested, original cylinders approaching 1500 hours, while the other 3 have been overhauled at least once. 

@DanM20C - Thanks!    

Brian  

[Alan Fox]

9 hours ago, teejayevans said:

How much are Beech bladders?

Not every Mooney needs a reseal, mine has been patched once and she is 40 years old. Hangared planes last much longer, every time I’ve seen a leaking Mooney, it sat outside.
We need another poll to see what the lifespan of sealant jobs is.

1400 plus a 4 hour install....

[Alan Fox]

3 hours ago, DavidJ18 said:

@steingar with all do respect this is not a stupid question. This is just a debate between all the pilot who flew or had Bonanza. Everyone is you're entitled to their opinion. Obviously both airplane have a different power-plant engine. 

@Alan Fox, thank you for input. Greatly appreciate it. Would you think maintenance, insurance, annual cost of Bonanza V would be more than J? And would you know which one would hold its value higher in a long run? Thanks 

Its not a fair question for me , as I am an A@P and do my own maintenance and decide on what to defer , The Bonanza is a lot easier to work on , with lots of room and a cowl that opens like a cars hood....... All things considered I think they are comparable , with the exception of the overhaul cost , The Bo engine is 25% more at overhaul , They say cylinders last longer in the Lyc. but I haven't seen it , because I usually run at 60 to 65% in either.... As far as holding value , its all about condition.....  Its better to buy more plane and grow into it , than buy less and then have to upgrade in 5 years...... Look at your mission , Mission decides airframe , not the other way around...... The fact that I did not get crucified on this thread , probably means I am on point in my descriptions.......  And I do enjoy my Mooney....... I just enjoy my Beech more......

[ArtVandelay]

1400 plus a 4 hour install....

Wow, that’s way less expensive than Mooney bladders, I wonder why?

[Kale McManus]

On 3/29/2018 at 1:56 PM, DavidJ18 said:

I see. Without the tip tanks whats the average useful-load on the V tail Bonanza? What are the difference in airspeed in the J and the V? And may i ask the reason for your upgrade, was it because of the useful load and being more spacious? Its nice to hear everyone's input.  

Useful load is 1061 in v add tip tanks puts it up to 1261 I would say speed going to be about the same but I need the 5 th seat and like having more room 

[Alan Fox]

9 minutes ago, Kale McManus said:

Useful load is 1061 in v add tip tanks puts it up to 1261 I would say speed going to be about the same but I need the 5 th seat and like having more room 

Sorry , My useful is 1200 plus without tips...tips will put it up to 1340 plus...

[flight2000]

My useful load is 1192 currently without tips.  No desire to drop $15K for a set, unless Alan would install them for me with some help...  

My M20E was 914 as a comparison.   

Brian

[Kale McManus]

7 minutes ago, Alan Fox said:

Sorry , My useful is 1200 plus without tips...tips will put it up to 1340 plus...

If you flying the mooney I'm not sure but if you are the 5th set you don't have you can do more and get the useful load up more just depends on what you want I guess I will miss the mooney for sure but I needed the room that bonanza has to offer 

[DavidJ18]

@Kale McManus thank you. I seem to recall seeing someone discussing a gross weight increase STC for certain models of the J series up to the 2900 gross weight. @Alan Fox would you know anything about that? Thanks 

[chrisk]

5 years ago when I was looking for a plane, the insurance for a Bonanza was substantially more expensive.  I unfortunately don't remember the exact numbers, and things could have changed.

[Kale McManus]

2 minutes ago, DavidJ18 said:

@Kale McManus thank you. I seem to recall seeing someone discussing a gross weight increase STC for certain models of the J series up to the 2900 gross weight. @Alan Fox would you know anything about that? Thanks 

I was not looking to sell the mooney it just seemed to happen man offered what I wanted and I kick myself every day I was right in the middle of finishing my instrument rating I always thought about going bigger so here I am v tail and like it little bit of Avionces and I'm done just build time but back to your question I really didn't look around to up the useful load on the mooney don't think there was lot for the 83 j model without spending more than I could ever get back out of it 

[carusoam]

16 hours ago, DavidJ18 said:

@Kale McManus thank you. I seem to recall seeing someone discussing a gross weight increase STC for certain models of the J series up to the 2900 gross weight. @Alan Fox would you know anything about that? Thanks 

David there is probably a whole thread on what it takes and which models are allowed, by serial number.  Above the serial number limit is more desirable... there is also a list that is posted that has each model year and it’s benefit from the first to the latest Mooneys built.... Check the downloads section for that...

One oddity, the Missile... an M20J with an IO550, and a MGToW That has been raised.... not with the same SN limitation....

 

Check in on Brian... He is one of the guys that is so committed to aviation, he flies for work...  very interesting aircraft...

If Brian buys a second plane....

How is this question going over on BT?

Best regards,

-a-

[DavidJ18]

@Kale McManus All my friends in aviation pushing me towards the Bonanza V tail as they are more roomier and definitely a true 4 sitter for long cross country.  Most of the V tails goes above 150K and i can't push the budgets right now. I love A36 on the other hand and i think it has the same performance as V. I though i should hold on to my Arrow and in a year or so go for A36. 

[gsxrpilot]

Lots of great advice here. Annual costs, like others have said, largely depend on the condition of the plane you start with. 

I find that most of my flying is either solo or with one other person, either a pilot buddy or my wife. For that, the F33A didn't make sense for me. I also couldn't afford it solo. The Mooney I fly now, a 252, I can easily afford without any pesky partners. And it's plenty for two people.

You mention that 150K is out of the budget right now. I'm sure as an airplane owner now, you realize that the capitol expense is only the tip of the iceberg. I wouldn't want to own an airplane that I could afford to hang an engine on at any time.