Mooney vs. Cirrus... looking for some advice

[dico]

Hello All,

I am doing some research on whether I need a Mooney or a Cirrus.

Here is my situation right now.  I currently have a Twin Comanche and its a great plane.  However it does not have FIKI and living in eastern Canada it makes the plane pretty useless a few months a year.  I used to have a M20E a few years ago but sold that so I could get the multi rating and IFR rating. (the M20E didn't have any IFR gear).

• 
  
• Usually I fly with 2 or 3 souls on board (75%)... 4 souls (25%).  Having said that, the more useful load, the better.
  
• I bring a pee bottle with me so I'm not afraid of long runs of 4-5 hours.  So long range fuel would be nice -- but do I need it for 4-5 hour legs?
  
• FIKI is a must
  
• G1000 is nice.  Currently have an Aspen and find the situational awareness quite valuable/safe.
  
• NA vs Turbo -- I'm not convinced the extra cost of the Turbo is worth it for my flying from 8k - 12k range.  How easily can a Mooney get up to 12k with 300lbs of pax, 50lbs baggage and full fuel? 
  
• Oxygen would be nice
  
• A/C is not required.  I can open the door on landing to cool off.  Saves weight and $.
  
• Garmin AP vs Stec... I've not flown with either -- which is best and why?
  

I'd love to hear your recommendations on models that I should be looking at!

Thanks,

Dico

 

[Piloto]

I would go for a metal plane. Composites have some drawbacks that I don't like. Unlike aluminum composites do not bend under stress but crack. In fact aluminun is formed by bending it, try that with a piece of composite material and it will crack. This why Cirrus requires a parachute. Trying to find a Mooney with TKS your likely option would be an Ovation or a TLS. Few of the older Mooneys were equipped with TKS. The Ovation is the most reliable and efficient. You can upgrade the Ovation to 310HP and have similar performance as the TLS at non-oxygen altitudes.

Good luck on your search

José

 

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: dico

Hello All,

I am doing some research on whether I need a Mooney or a Cirrus.

Here is my situation right now.  I currently have a Twin Comanche and its a great plane.  However it does not have FIKI and living in eastern Canada it makes the plane pretty useless a few months a year.  I used to have a M20E a few years ago but sold that so I could get the multi rating and IFR rating. (the M20E didn't have any IFR gear).

Usually I fly with 2 or 3 souls on board (75%)... 4 souls (25%).  Having said that, the more useful load, the better.

I bring a pee bottle with me so I'm not afraid of long runs of 4-5 hours.  So long range fuel would be nice -- but do I need it for 4-5 hour legs?

FIKI is a must

G1000 is nice.  Currently have an Aspen and find the situational awareness quite valuable/safe.

NA vs Turbo -- I'm not convinced the extra cost of the Turbo is worth it for my flying from 8k - 12k range.  How easily can a Mooney get up to 12k with 300lbs of pax, 50lbs baggage and full fuel? 

Oxygen would be nice

A/C is not required.  I can open the door on landing to cool off.  Saves weight and $.

Garmin AP vs Stec... I've not flown with either -- which is best and why?

I'd love to hear your recommendations on models that I should be looking at!

Thanks,

Dico

 

[jlunseth]

The 231 is not able to be fitted with FIKI TKS.  I think primarily because its a 14V system and only one alternator with no way to add a second, redundant one.  It can be fitted within advertent TKS, and that is not nothing, but it will keep you on the ground quite a bit during the winter.

[dico]

Quote: GeorgePerry

 If FIKI is a "must" then you'll likely be looking at a later model Long body Mooney...which tend to be highly desired and somewhat expensive.  Occasionally a J will come up with TKS but that's the exception not the rule.  Probably your best "bang-for-buck" plane would be a 231 with aftermarket wastegate, intercooler and TKS.  But if a turbo is also a non-starter then the 231/252/Encore along with the Bravo and Acclaim models are out.

Your post doesn't talk budget, but I'd assume your in the 175K-250K range based on the models your interested in.  As for very capable NA Mooneys the two in that range are the M20S eagle and M20R.  The eagle can be a good value and some do have TKS systems.  That leaves M20R Ovations.  Lots of them around right now and at some pretty low prices. 

Another consideration is insurance.  Mooneys tend to be cheap when compared to insuring SR-22's or Beach products.  Get a generic quote for both an M20S and SR-22 to compare.

Also, I'd highly recommend you try to fly each.  The Mooney and Cirrus are completely different animals.  The Mooney feels like a finely tuned BMW 5 series sports sedan and the Cirrus feels like the family SUV.  Over to you on which you prefer.   Performance #'s are easily searchable on the internet.  You'll find that "in general" NA Mooneys climb slightly slower than the Cirrus but cruise quite a bit faster.  As for Turbo's the clime delta narrows and is almost a wash, but the cruise numbers and fuel burn for a Turbo Mooney (esp a 231/252) are just incredible!

Your best bet is to do some research, read everything you can and fly each.  Here's a link to the 231 and 252 evals which will help get you started.  http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/M20K231%20Eval%20Files/M20K231_Eval.htm

http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/M20K252_evaluation_report.htm

http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/

 As for AP's...I wouldn't even factor that into my decision matrix.  If the plane has one and it works...that's really all you need.

[danb35]

Quote: dico

Perhaps my wish list to too much (champagne taste on a beer budget), but what would the following cost:

fiki

g1000 svt

gfc700

normally aspirated

no a/c

Another question, at what model year should I start looknig where I can find a Mooney with these specs? 

[Parker_Woodruff]

Could be hard to find a FIKI certified Cirrus for $350k.

[dico]

Quote: danb35

For that list, you're looking at an Ovation 2GX or Ovation 3, 2005+.  Here's a listing that meets all your specs: http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20R-OVATION-3-GX/2007-MOONEY-M20R-OVATION-3-GX/1180007.htm?.  Asking price is a little higher than your budget ($389k US), but not much, and I wouldn't be too surprised if there's some flexibility there.  There are a few others listed with TKS, but they don't state that it's FIKI TKS, so it may not be.

[docket]

Mooneys are the absolute best Insurance value in aviation.

Premiums are cheap and we have lots of flexibility on pilots.  Cirrus is 2x-3x higher insurance cost.

[tjyak50]

Quote: docket

Mooneys are the absolute best Insurance value in aviation.

Premiums are cheap and we have lots of flexibility on pilots.  Cirrus is 2x-3x higher insurance cost.

[carusoam]

I was just logged in as Piper Painter.....

I noticed before I posted anything....

Its the first time I have ever had the dreaded ID switch.

-a-

[John Pleisse]

Watch out for legacy Cirrus....$10k for the ballistic parachute system recert. Both brands M and C, could cost you from $18k to $88k  on some 2004-2007.5 models to upgrade the G1000 to WAAS. Mooney will have more choices for FIKI certs. $350k? It's a buyer's market over $150k, so be sure to pay the nut and not settle for less than a full cert FIKI, not an inadvertant system.