SUMMER ICE!

[Brian Scranton]

We've now flown this bad ass airplane from coast to coast. Yesterday we made the trip from Colorado to Bellingham, WA. On approach, at 10,000 (0 C), picked up 1/2 inch of rime in less than 30 seconds. Immediately asked for higher/lower...could only get higher so got above the clouds at 12,000 (-5C). No power loss. Airspeed loss of 5kts. Climb rate of 500fpm. I was super impressed with how the plane handled. Eventually, got lower, and it all came off... but definitely made my heart rate jump a bit.

Here's a shot a few minutes after...once we got out of the soup. 

[slowflyin]

It's always a little exciting when it accumulates quickly!   Nice job!

 

 

[M20FanJesse]

Boy thanks scary, I didn't think it accumulated that fast!

[201er]

Yeah, I always get a bit taken by surprise about summer icing. In the winter, it's all on your mind. Summer is more like thunderstorms and low visibility kinda stuff.

Edited July 21, 2017 by 201er

[gsxrpilot]

I got just a trace today at FL180 over Arizona. Came on quickly and went away just as quickly down at 16,000.

[carusoam]

Great photo!

Ice builds quickly.  Increase in weight, and loss of lift from deformed airfoil...

Don't want to stay around too long.  Get out...

Thanks for sharing,

-a-

[BradB]

Here is some summer ice at 17000 last Friday.  This took about 30 seconds to accumulate (sld?) and was right before I switched the TKS to max.   Once on max, it cleared pretty easily.  I was only in that for a few minutes.   But if I had boots and not TKS, the stuff behind the leading edge would not have cleared so quickly for me.   And no, I was not in a vertical climb    The Acclaim climbs well, but not that well.   Stupid sideways pictures 

 

[gsxrpilot]

[kortopates]

The worst ice is typically right at the tops, especially when the clouds have some vertical development.

[BradB]

4 hours ago, kortopates said:

The worst ice is typically right at the tops, especially when the clouds have some vertical development.

That is where I was.   But I knew that it would be for only a short time.   I asked for 190, which was unavailable.  That would have put me above it.  I knew that just a few thousand down was above freezing.   Straight through it was only 2-3 minutes and I knew I'd be in the clear on the back side.   So I decided to ride it out rather than go lower earlier than I wanted to.   If I needed it down was the way I was going to go.  

 

 

[Tommy]

Always find it fascinating how ATC can reject a flight level change under this kind of circumstance? Single piston with limited ice-clearing ability in IMC with fast-building rime ice requesting a 2000-foot altitude change.

No not available unless you spun out of control... 

I am sure that you've told the ATC the reason for request?

[PMcClure]

10 hours ago, Tommy said:

Always find it fascinating how ATC can reject a flight level change under this kind of circumstance? Single piston with limited ice-clearing ability in IMC with fast-building rime ice requesting a 2000-foot altitude change.

No not available unless you spun out of control... 

I am sure that you've told the ATC the reason for request?

Perhaps Terrain Separation in this case? Minimum altitude along that route look like they are 8-10k. 

[Tommy]

19 minutes ago, PMcClure said:

Perhaps Terrain Separation in this case? Minimum altitude along that route look like they are 8-10k. 

He was at 170 asking 190. 

[peevee]

7 minutes ago, Tommy said:

He was at 170 asking 190. 

Crossing traffic at 180?

Military atcaa active from 180?

There are hundreds of potential reasons. Just because you got into ice doesn't mean the controller can suddenly break any rules. What's what declaring an emergency is for.

[Tommy]

16 minutes ago, peevee said:

Crossing traffic at 180?

Military atcaa active from 180?

There are hundreds of potential reasons. Just because you got into ice doesn't mean the controller can suddenly break any rules. What's what declaring an emergency is for.

Agree but icing emergencies are frequently sudden, violent, irrecoverable, and fatal.  Any good ATC should be pro-active. Rules need not be broken if, say, conflicting traffic is re-routed. Yes lots of potential reasons and that's why I am curious about it. 

The best ATCs are often pilots themselves. They know what it's like as a single pilot getting tossed around in the soup, disoriented, stressed, and overwhelmed. Not only they are well aware of the critical natures of spatial disorientation, instrument failure, and icing, they also have the knack of rendering assistance even before it is requested or of steering the low-time / low-proficiency pilots out of trouble in the first place. 

[peevee]

So the controller was supposed to know he was going to fly into ice and move traffic so he could have higher just when he asked for it? Right.

 

 

[Tommy]

He did request to go 190 and I am sure he would've stated the reason. "Centre 8PJ. Any chance of going 190? Picking up some rime ice fast here." 

[BradB]

The denial was for crossing traffic descending into the New York area.   I did report moderate ice.   If I did feel like it was going to be a safety issue I would not have hesitated to ask for lower or use the e word and go higher.   It really was just a short trip through so I didn't push the issue.    Putting the TKS on max took care of the issue, too. 

[BradB]

16 minutes ago, peevee said:

So the controller was supposed to know he was going to fly into ice and move traffic so he could have higher just when he asked for it? Right.

 

 

You mean the world doesn't revolve around me? 

[BradB]

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

Agree but icing emergencies are frequently sudden, violent, irrecoverable, and fatal.  Any good ATC should be pro-active. Rules need not be broken if, say, conflicting traffic is re-routed. Yes lots of potential reasons and that's why I am curious about it. 

The best ATCs are often pilots themselves. They know what it's like as a single pilot getting tossed around in the soup, disoriented, stressed, and overwhelmed. Not only they are well aware of the critical natures of spatial disorientation, instrument failure, and icing, they also have the knack of rendering assistance even before it is requested or of steering the low-time / low-proficiency pilots out of trouble in the first place. 

Sometime it is obvious when the guy on the other side of the radio is a pilot.  That is usually very helpful.   

Sometimes, ATC will not know what kind of plane I am.  When we fly at those altitudes and with a good tail wind, we can hit turboprop speeds.   On several different occasions I have been called a Mitsubishi, once a Meridian, and even once was called Pilatus 8PJ.   I double checked to make sure that my aircraft designation was correct. 

I use 'Mooney' in front of my call sign every time to try to help.   And when I am really high and have passengers, I'll give a reminder that we are an unpressurized piston and need a little more time for a decent.  

New York and Boston center have always been very good and helpful to me    My mention in the post was not meant to be a complaint at all    I have no doubt that I would have gotten whatever I needed if I had pushed the issue.  I asked for 19000 before I got in the ice as that would have put me above the clouds.   Once I was in it, I did report the ice, but it was a quick trip through it.  4000 lower would have put me well above freezing, but would have greatly extended the ride in the clouds.  

Brad. 

[BradB]

2 hours ago, PMcClure said:

Perhaps Terrain Separation in this case? Minimum altitude along that route look like they are 8-10k. 

Probably true of @Brian Scranton post that started this thread.   

[Tommy]

I think ATC should be wary and proactive whenever the pilot is reporting heavy precip, severe turbulence + icing, or their radar track is showing possible spatial orientation because things can and often happen very quickly under these circumstances in a single pilot small GA aircraft. 

Case and point, I was just reading an NTSB report on a ?Bonanza that crashed with presumed spatial disorientation. The ATC didn't pick up the red flag signs and at one stage even offered no gyro approach, vectoring the pilot left right and centre. The result was 3 fatalities.

And we all remembered N731CA, "...The controller then advised the pilot of moderate rime icing from 15,000 feet through 17,000 feet with light rime ice at 14,000 feet. The controller asked that the pilot advise him if the icing got worse, and the pilot responded with, “we’ll let you know what happens when we get in there and if we could go straight through, it’s no problem for us.” "

[peevee]

I hear a lot of everyone else should do this for the pilot and not a lot of hey let's not out airplanes in avoidable dangerous situations in here.

[StevenL757]

38 minutes ago, Tommy said:

I think ATC should be wary and proactive whenever the pilot is reporting heavy precip, severe turbulence + icing, or their radar track is showing possible spatial orientation because things can and often happen very quickly under these circumstances in a single pilot small GA aircraft. 

Huh?  Let's go back to a novel concept we all supposedly learned in Private Pilot 101.  How about the pilot's planning skills using "all available resources" to avoid a route segment that could put him/her into a known icing condition using an aircraft not approved for flight into known ice conditions?

The controller isn't the one flying the airplane here.

Steve

[SkepticalJohn]

Reminder - If you can't shed the ice, you're looking at a zero flap landing with increased speed.

Flaps with icing in our birds = tail stall.

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