United Incident

[Skates97]

Just now, cnoe said:

 

I heard from my wife's hairdresser's best-friend's cousin that she read on facebook that somebody told another passenger on a plane that landed at that same airport that she heard in the ladies' room that the guy who was dragged off the plane for refusing a lawful order from police had actually been murdered by rouge cops but then later was resurrected by an African witch doctor from Detroit before returning to the plane to recover his carry-on. I'm pretty sure that's how it all went down.


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That's the same story I heard, except I was told the African witch doctor was actually from Milwaukee...

[Tommy]

28 minutes ago, PTK said:

You're missing tbe point Hank. You do give up certain rights when traveling on an airline. 

It was certainly handled inappropriately and they could've avoided the drama but he was dragged out because he refused to follow instructions. But the airline did what they had to do which is enforce the rules. He either misunderstood not realizing that he has to abide or made a conscious decision to be difficult. The end result was going to be the same. Unfortunately those four pax were not flying on that flight. 

 

Yes, ranked 67th and below Ethiopian airline. Are you missing the point? 

[MB65E]

My Grandpa worked for UAL for 40 years post war. Today He would have be ashamed of the way it was handled on BOTH sides. UAL sure has their work cut out for them now. 

I fly SWA domestically when ever possible. Hawaiian to hawaii, unless UAL is cheaper. I Cashed in some UAL points recently for a nice canon printer. The UAL travel vouchers require an act of congress to use them in a normal way. SWA's vouchers work great all the time. 

Hey, it makes GA and corporate look amazing. If the airlines keep it up GA and corporate will be around a LONG time!!

My 1/2¢,

-Matt

[Jim Peace]

6 hours ago, Andy95W said:

So, other than not overbooking, what should United Airlines have done differently?  Stranded 100+ passengers in Louisville for another 15-18 hours? Not abide by their own published policy? When the man refused to leave the airplane, not called for a law enforcement officer?

I say that they could have chartered a plane for the crew.  I used to fly CAL pilots in Lears around the west coast for their internal travel issues.  They could have driven them.  They could have sent them down on SWA or any other airline.  For some reason airlines never do this but it is a way to get there.....you would have to be creative and think outside the box...hard to do for a legacy POS.....and being that you had to ask what else could they have done differently is part of the problem......you fit right in there.......

They could have offered more money for people to give up their seat.  800 bucks in 2017 is not enough.  There have been times that no money in the world is enough, going to a parents funeral, your own wedding etc etc......800 bucks is a fraction of what the top brass get per minute in that company.  if they offered 1500 to 2000 UAL would not have this bad PR.......

The egos that gate agents and passenger pilots have is insane and unmerited. Don't get me started on those LEO's......

Even as a current UAL shareholder I hope it tanks to zero...........would be worth the loss to see it crater.......I could use the write off....

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by Jim Peace

[kpaul]

In this case I do not agree with the airline or the customers handling of the situation.  Either of them could have behaved with civility and a lot of embarrassment could have been avoided.

This past September I was returning from an overseas deployment via commercial air with connections all the way home. Upon clearing customs in Atlanta, I learned that I had been re-booked on a later flight.  I went to the gate just to check on the status of the original flight.  It turned out that 1) the scheduled aircraft was replaced with one coming out of maintenance and had too much fuel to allow for a full passenger load and 2) they gave two of the available seats to employees, thus limiting the capacity for paying passengers even more.  Since I had been "re-booked" the airline did not offer any incentives, just a later flight.

I am sure I could have played the military card, but that would have just bumped someone else, after months deployed I sat a few (5) extra hours in Atlanta, but still arrived home.

[Jerry 5TJ]

What's the rush?

As my late flight instructor said, "If you've got time to spare, go by air."

...In 1999 I took a scheduled airline flight from Rarotonga to Manihiki to do some engineering work for Telecom Cook Islands.  There was one flight per week in an unpressurized King Air.  When we arrived in Manihiki the agent told me the barge that delivers barrels of jet fuel (by tossing them into the surf to be towed ashore) had broken down, so there wouldn't be a flight the following week.  But, he said, the one in two weeks would probably go so I had been bumped to the next flight.  Or the one after that. 

Caught up in a Silicon Valley mindset where one expects flights out of OAK and SFO to be as available as, say, a Starbucks, it was anxiety-inducing.  But soon I adapted to the local mode where everything gets done efficiently enough on island time.  

I did get a seat out 2 weeks later.  No problem.  

And yes, UAL could have handled their overbooked flight better.  

 

[Yetti]

5 hours ago, PTK said:

You're missing tbe point Hank. You do give up certain rights when traveling on an airline. 

It was certainly handled inappropriately and they could've avoided the drama but he was dragged out because he refused to follow instructions. But the airline did what they had to do which is enforce the rules. He either misunderstood not realizing that he has to abide or made a conscious decision to be difficult. The end result was going to be the same. Unfortunately those four pax were not flying on that flight. 

 

I think you are missing some key points.

The rules are written such as "to deny boarding"   Once you have boarded and seated that is not how the FARs and Contract of Carriage is written. The gate agent is not "flight crew" so no FAR violation there to refuse their "random selection".   The police are not enforcing a lawful order nor making a lawful request. The airline should not have written a ticket and created a contract if they did not intend to fulfill it.  

[PTK]

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

I think you are missing some key points.

The rules are written such as "to deny boarding"   Once you have boarded and seated that is not how the FARs and Contract of Carriage is written. The gate agent is not "flight crew" so no FAR violation there to refuse their "random selection".   The police are not enforcing a lawful order nor making a lawful request. The airline should not have written a ticket and created a contract if they did not intend to fulfill it.  

Not so. The seat isn't guaranteed and it is at the airline's discretion to allow you to fly. And with the airplane still at the gate the airline can still enforce it. At this point the pax has no choice but to abide. The minute he started arguing and giving excuses he is considered an interference which gives the crew reason to force him off the plane. 

Was it handled improperly? Absolutely and by both sides. We don't know what transpired and why the airline took this action. But I think he shares the bigger burden than the airline however. 

Sensational videos and the court of public opinion is a pr issue and UAL will handle it and will be fine. Most people are rational and upon final analysis understand that we need to follow the rules and go on.

 

 

[yvesg]

Here is a CB club member perspective: I am amused by the whole thing, different opinions for or against the airline, for or against the passenger.... but as a passenger of "the cheapest airline fare I could find" the whole thing might force UAL to discount their tickets in the next few months to gain back market share this event makes them loose. I visit my son in L A every year and this time is coming soon.

If UAL is the cheapest I will go with them. If they overbook my flight, now I know how much I should wait before I tell them to offer my seat to whatever VIP that needs it the most. $1350 time 2 and then converted to $CDN is worth lots of Mooney fuel hours!

Yves

[aviatoreb]

54 minutes ago, yvesg said:

Here is a CB club member perspective: I am amused by the whole thing, different opinions for or against the airline, for or against the passenger.... but as a passenger of "the cheapest airline fare I could find" the whole thing might force UAL to discount their tickets in the next few months to gain back market share this event makes them loose. I visit my son in L A every year and this time is coming soon.

If UAL is the cheapest I will go with them. If they overbook my flight, now I know how much I should wait before I tell them to offer my seat to whatever VIP that needs it the most. $1350 time 2 and then converted to $CDN is worth lots of Mooney fuel hours!

Yves

Sometimes one is going to visit someone for several days and being bumped is an inconvenience.  Sometimes a business travel consists of 24 hrs there and back for sake of a 3 hour meeting, and being bumped makes the entire travel irrelevant and not worth going.  Sometimes, as someone said, the travel is go be at a funeral, or say your own son's wedding, etc, and being late is much less of an option. 

The carrot - offering sufficiently rich incentives - rather than a stick - marching out the goons - will shake this out conveniently, who is willing to give up a seat because their schedule allows, if sufficiently motivated.

[Tommy]

1 hour ago, PTK said:

Not so. The seat isn't guaranteed and it is at the airline's discretion to allow you to fly. And with the airplane still at the gate the airline can still enforce it. The pax has no choice but to abide. The minute he started arguing and giving excuses he is considered an interference which gives the crew reason to force him off the plane.

Was it handled improperly? Absolutely and by both sides. But he shares the bigger burden than the airline however. 

Sensational videos and the court of public opinion is a pr issue and UL will handle it and will be fine. Most people are rational and upon final analysis understand that we need to follow the rules and go on.

 

 

 

And with the same reasoning and logics as yours, wouldn't Jews be considered interfering with German Third Reich and Jews had no rights but to abide since they were living in Germany? And the minute they started arguing, they should be all rounded up and put in the camp?

Just like you said, they needed to follow the rules. Right?

 

[cnoe]

 
And with the same reasoning and logics as yours, wouldn't Jews be considered interfering with German Third Reich and Jews had no rights but to abide since they were living in Germany? And the minute they started arguing, they should be all rounded up and put in the camp?
Just like you said, they needed to follow the rules. Right?
 

I'm not sure trivializing the Holocaust is supportive of your argument. This is merely a PR issue for a public corporation.


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[MyNameIsNobody]

This is NOT complicated.  I feel badly for the passengers plight, but this comes down to an evolving progression of war against structured society and the rule of law vs. I am FREE to do what I want when I want.

I really do NOT like being a passenger on commercial aviation.  It is NOT the airlines, in general that I don't care for.  It is the other passengers actions.

If everyone could be a little bit more "Japanese" in their public demeanor the world and commercial aviation would be a better place.

[Tommy]

11 hours ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

This is NOT complicated.  I feel badly for the passengers plight, but this comes down to an evolving progression of war against structured society and the rule of law vs. I am FREE to do what I want when I want.

I really do NOT like being a passenger on commercial aviation.  It is NOT the airlines, in general that I don't care for.  It is the other passengers actions.

If everyone could be a little bit more "Japanese" in their public demeanor the world and commercial aviation would be a better place.

I can ensure you no Japanese airline will beat up a passenger like this. I travelled to Japan extensively and their customer service will put United to utter shame... Curteous. Thoughtful. And deligent.

Just like Munoz' s statement, you are blaming the victims. It's like you are asking the girls not to dress too revealing lest they want to be harassed. 

[Browncbr1]

Where is Little Timmy to set us all straight?

[Marauder]

Where is Little Timmy to set us all straight?

Not sure, but I want to talk about why my women get treated so bad on airplanes.

You think it has anything to do with them taking up two seats?




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[Marauder]

And this reminds me of a nice conversation Clarence & I had last night about our pets. Why are people so discriminating? My little pup and Clarence's cat get the meanest looks from people. Why is that?








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[Marauder]

I assure you, both of them are lap pets. Legs a bit numb afterwards, but certainly fit on our laps.


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[mooniac15u]

Here's an informative video regarding United customer service.

 

[rbridges]

12 hours ago, Yetti said:

You do not talk about fight club!

[MyNameIsNobody]

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

I can ensure you no Japanese airline will beat up a passenger like this. I travelled to Japan extensively and their customer service will put United to utter shame... Curteous. Thoughtful. And deligent.

 

Just like Munoz' s statement, you are blaming the victims. It's like you are asking the girls not to dress too revealing lest they want to be harrassed. 

Did you mean assure?  United did not "beat up" anyone.  O'Hare Airport authorities removed a passenger that was selected by a random electronic process for removal by established protocols.

Not blaming the victim Tommy, but his actions precipitated the result.  Your example is flawed.  We have been down this road before.  Just clarifying the words you used to describe my statement that are NOT accurate.

There was a course that the passenger could have taken to achieve "satisfaction".  He chose a different course.  He does NOT want me on his jury.

Have a nice tomorrow.

[MyNameIsNobody]

1 hour ago, Browncbr1 said:

Where is Little Timmy to set us all straight?

Such a funny guy.  Good one.  You amuse me.  Gut buster there Brown.  Whew.

Lets talk about aching backs.  An equally awesome topic.

[MooneyMitch]

Can't wait for SNL! 

[MyNameIsNobody]

Just now, MooneyMitch said:

Can't wait for SNL! 

Is that still on the air....?

[MooneyMitch]

4 minutes ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

Is that still on the air....?

Maybe.......just my feeble attempt at jocularity.