Mooney Capabilities

[FoxMike]

My experience of over forty years of flying weather, lots of it over the Rockies, I would offer this advise.  In moderate ice which you do not encounter all the time, you need a turbo to get the power to give you at least 700fpm or so rate of climb.  Since many times you are only getting light ice your climb rate can be less and the risk of falling from the sky not that high.    If you want dispatch reliability you need a de/anti iced turboed airplane that you are proficient in flying.  Experience counts for a lot in dismal weather.  For those who  do not think the turbo is necessary,  I can remember crossing Indiana in December and bumping into freezing rain in my "booted" T210.  The boots did not help much but the turbo saved the day.  You do not need the turbo often but when you need it there is no substitute.  I have owned a FIKI Bravo for more than a decade and wish it had more useful load but when the weather gets bad I love the heavy equipment.  BTW turbo pilots need O2 so make sure you have some on board.  One other thought.  If you have a weather capable airplane the maintenance must be impeccable.  Most of the time you are riding along in VFR wondering why you are spending a ton to maintain all this equipment.  Then the weather gets bad and you remember why.  In other words you only need this stuff once in a while but without it you gotta stop or not start. 

  

[thinwing]

Having owned my Fiki Bravo for 7 years now,no reliability issues at all.Engine and turbo have been fine ,with normal oil use and compressions.I have had mags 500 houred,air brakes rebuilt,ldg gear doughnuts replaced,nose wheel steering rebushed,and annoying stall trigger recements finally solved by changing adhesive.While I don't fly much in Great Lakes effect icing...my experience in high teen icing flight has been the tks is highly effective.Piloto 3 hour estimate of duration is incorrect...figure 90 min of protection which is a life time in icing conditions.The usual solution is to rapidly climb above icing conditions.Out west...that can be 17 19 20 k feet and would notbe advisable  in non turbo.

[jackn]

With a turbo, there are additional plumbing and controllers that have to be checked and some preventive maintenance, Not really a big deal and I've never had a failure, but then I get to fly a turbo. 

[THill182]

I have been flying my O2 and now 310HP converted (O3) for over 10 years, and all-over. My plane has a non-certified inadvertent TKS system on it.

I can say that flying into high country going West from the plains is always a challenge. While my M20R easily climbs to 18k ft or above, if you have downdrafts and mountain wave activity as you usually do, I have often found myself having trouble maintaining 14k feet or even 12k feet. Beyond Ice, winds-aloft is an issue over the mountains, and a no-go for me when over 40kts or 50kts (depending on my routing) at my altitude. To get over the mechanical turbulence from high winds and rising heat you need to get probably well above 20k ft.  Note that most MEA over the really high mountains around Denver are 16k, so you need to get to and maintain 17K going East; again, not a big deal in good weather, but not something I would want to attempt with 40kts winds howling. Very hot summer days also will further diminish climb performance.

Regarding TKS: it is very effective. I opted for inadvertent because I consider it an emergency fix for me (not much ice usually around OK/TX etc). Frankly, for myself, I would be very hesitant to go into known icing in a single engine non-turbo plane. I never flew a turbo'ed plane myself (flown in a few as a passenger), but been around people who have them. Turbocharging seem very beneficial for ice avoidance and probably more important than TKS or boots to quickly climb through icing and find ice-free altitudes; by the way, Mike Busch also wrote about that here: http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/182808-1.html.

 

So to summarize: In my opinion, the M20R is a great personal airliner, which has served me very well. In fact, I have never been left stranded anywhere because of mechanical problems. But being non-turbo means that while you can get to 18kft or higher, it is not easy nor guaranteed in the mountains, with downdrafts, and so on. If I had to fly in the mountains routinely, I would want Turbo charging, and frankly, would prefer a twin turbocharged plane...

[peevee]

1 hour ago, THill182 said:

To get over the mechanical turbulence from high winds and rising heat you need to get probably well above 20k ft. 

In the winter across the colorado rockies there are often bizjets that can't top the wave action at 410, 430, or even 450.

[Jerry 5TJ]

I used to fly my P46T over the Rockies six to ten times per year.   And I just finished a round-trip across them this month in the Ovation. 

Both planes seemed about the same to me -- I want to be either on top or in visual conditions most of the time in either plane.  In neither do I wish to be in the clouds much of the time over those peaks.   In neither plane are suitable (or survivable) landing sites always in gliding range.   Both are certified FIKI but that is just good enough to get out of icing, not to fly through it.  Neither 15,000 in the O nor FL270 in the P46T was high enough to get over a lot of the clouds, you go around the ones you don't like flying through. 

There are some big gaps in NEXRAD radar coverage west of Denver, another factor to weigh.  

If there is significant turbulence then both planes must be slowed to about 135 KIAS. 

I'd say either plane is OK for crossing the Rockies, but I require day mostly VMC conditions in either one.  

Even airliners dodge the towering clouds and seek smoother air; just listen to the chatter on high altitude ATC frequencies which can be dominated by ride and deviation requests. 

 

[peevee]

Just now, Jerry 5TJ said:

There are some big gaps in NEXRAD radar coverage west of Denver, another factor to weigh.  

 

 

I disagree. Maybe around Alamosa but for the most part the coverage is pretty good, unless it's blocked by rocks.

We do get a lot of dry cells that nexrad won't paint however.

Edited September 30, 2016 by peevee

[Jerry 5TJ]

Just now, peevee said:

I disagree. Maybe around Alamosa but for the most part the coverage is pretty good, unless it's blocked by rocks.

We do get a lot of dry cells that nexrad won't paint however.

[peevee]

Just now, Jerry 5TJ said:

that is the entirety of the colorado rockies....minus a hole around cortez. But hey what do I know, I just look at it all day.

[Jerry 5TJ]

Here's a sample picture of what shows up on the G500 screen from XM weather.  This shot shows us heading E into Wyoming.   The purple areas are "no coverage" blobs where NEXRAD images are not displayed.   I've noticed that XM symbols showing lightning strikes does appear in these areas, at least. 

[peevee]

Just now, Jerry 5TJ said:

Here's a sample picture of what shows up on the G500 screen from XM weather.  This shot shows us heading E into Wyoming.   The purple areas are "no coverage" blobs where NEXRAD images are not displayed.   I've noticed that XM symbols showing lightning strikes does appear in these areas, at least. 

you mentioned gaps west of denver, not north in UT and WY... Though coverage is also not bad there, either, and it's by in large desert.

Edited September 30, 2016 by peevee

[mooniac15u]

On 9/27/2016 at 3:17 PM, Robert C. said:

 

• Add 4 adults at 580lbs (in winter clothes, with boots, head sets, flight bag?) and you're at 3080. Coincidentally that means that if you want to land with 20 gal on board (my personal minimum) you'll be landing at the...

 

Where can you find 4 adults that weigh a total of 580lbs (in full winter gear)?  That's an average of 145lbs.  Even the FAA now says people weigh 190 in the summer and 195 in the winter.

[JKSmith]

Don't know much about the M22 but I've seen it pop up a time or two. Pressurized and turbo I believe  

http://www.airplanemart.com/aircraft-for-sale/Single-Engine-Piston/1969-Mooney-M22-Mustang/8715/

[gsengle]

Serial #2. How many exist?


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[gsengle]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mooney_M22_Mustang


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