Fuel burn on climb out

[Rookie]

You guys with the io-360 200hp J models.

Does your climb fuel burn and decent fuel burn average close to cruise burn?

[carusoam]

Climb is done very rich and descent is done very lean or LOP...

So it may depend how you do it.

realistically, most Mooney engines burn 50% more in climb, but they only climb for 10 to 20 minutes.

i get the feeling you are trying to simplify something that shouldn't be simplified.

Have you determined your climb fuel burn? Done on one tank, measured and timed.

same for cruise.  Measured and timed.

read the CIES Guy's threads for logic regarding fuel level accuracy.  Then realize how simplifying things can effect your judgement.

Do you have FF?  How well are your fuel level gauges working?

Search for Scott Philben from CIES...

i appologize in advance if I missed your point.

Best regards,

-a-

[Rookie]

  On 7/5/2016 at 3:17 AM, carusoam said:

Climb is done very rich and descent is done very lean or LOP...

So it may depend how you do it.

realistically, most Mooney engines burn 50% more in climb, but they only climb for 10 to 20 minutes.

i get the feeling you are trying to simplify something that shouldn't be simplified.

Have you determined your climb fuel burn? Done on one tank, measured and timed.

same for cruise.  Measured and timed.

read the CIES Guy's threads for logic regarding fuel level accuracy.  Then realize how simplifying things can effect your judgement.

Do you have FF?  How well are your fuel level gauges working?

Search for Scott Philben from CIES...

i appologize in advance if I missed your point.

Best regards,

-a-

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Yea I read some info on this subject in Mooney Space, on climb out you should burn 1 gal per cylinder per hour than cruise. I was thinking someone may hay did the actual testing and came up with a decent measurement.

[Rookie]

  On 7/5/2016 at 12:41 PM, bluehighwayflyer said:

That is a crazy over generalization.  

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Yep!

[carusoam]

Rookie mistake...?

1 gph per cylinder is half of what has been quoted as actual data under the best conditions.

Your POH will provide better performance information than the direction you are going here.

The J has some pretty well developed documentation.  Not perfect, but provides an excellent starting place.

It may make sense to hire a CFI to go through the flight planning steps regarding fuel usage.

It is too easy of a mistake to make.  

If an hour of a CFI's cost is too much, consider the cost of running out of fuel a few miles from the airport.

 

The other easy/costly mistake to make this time of year... Density altitude effects on T/O distance.  This is stuff that comes directly from the POH.

 

for other costly errors, include stall speed vs. angle of bank.  It's in the POH as well.

 

It is that serious.  My friend Patrick would want you to know...

Do you have a copy of the POH for the plane you are going to fly?

 

time to unmask yourself...?  We are here to give each other a hand.  We become stronger by sharing our experiences.

 

I am only a private pilot, not a CFI.

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

[Bob_Belville]

The software @ Fltplan.com, and no doubt other sites, asks for fuel flow per hour for climb, cruise, and descent for each aircraft you fly. Subsequently when you plan a flight it will project your fuel requirement at several altitudes including the effect of wind aloft forecasts. 

If you have an EDM with fuel flow/accumulator I think it's a good idea to note the "USED" when you change tanks at 1:00 into flight. For my flights that's likely to be 13 or so. If I'm burning 9 per hour in cruise it took an extra 4 gallons before I got to pull it back to cruise mixture setting. I generally push the nose over to red line for descent, the FF stays close to cruise. But mpg bumps up nicely. 

[Bob_Belville]

  On 7/5/2016 at 2:58 AM, Rookie said:

You guys with the io-360 200hp J models.

Does your climb fuel burn and decent fuel burn average close to cruise burn?

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no

[Bob - S50]

My short answer... No.

Here's what I do ('78 J)

When putting it into a computer program or app, I use 16 GPH for the climb and 7 GPH for the descent.

When doing planning in my head....

If the engine is cold (first start of the day) I plan on 1 gallon to start, warm the oil, taxi and takeoff.  If the engine is already warm, I plan on 0.5 gallons.

Since I plan 150 KTAS on 9 GPH (just barely LOP) I plan on burning 6 gallons for every 100 NM for the entire distance.

If I climb at 100 - 110 KIAS, I plan on burning an additional .25 gallons for every 1000' of climb.

I plan on zero fuel savings in the descent because I plan on using any fuel saved when I fly the pattern at my destination.

For every 10 knots of headwind enroute, I add 0.5 gallon/100 NM.

Here's an example for a 300 mile flight cruising at 6000' (first flight of the day, calm winds).

1 gallon STTO.  3 x 6 = 18 gallons for cruise.  6 x .25 = 1.5 additional for the climb.  Total = 1 + 18 + 1.5 = 20.5 gallons.  PLUS reserves (I use 10 -12 for reserves).

If I had a 10 knot headwind I'd add 1.5 gallons for a total of 22 burned.

Bob

[ArtVandelay]

From JPI log: used 3.6 gallons for start, runup, climb to 9000'...I lean as I climb to maintain EGTs 150 degrees ROP. Too much math above...I flightplan 4gal unless going above 10000'

[Rookie]

  On 7/5/2016 at 2:38 PM, teejayevans said:

From JPI log: used 3.6 gallons for start, runup, climb to 9000'...I lean as I climb to maintain EGTs 150 degrees ROP. Too much math above...I flightplan 4gal unless going above 10000'

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What is your climb IAS?

[Guest]

30 GPH at 140.

Clarence

[ArtVandelay]

  On 7/5/2016 at 8:54 PM, Rookie said:

  On 7/5/2016 at 2:38 PM, teejayevans said:

6 hours ago, teejayevans said: From JPI log: used 3.6 gallons for start, runup, climb to 9000'...I lean as I climb to maintain EGTs 150 degrees ROP. Too much math above...I flightplan 4gal unless going above 10000'

What is your climb IAS?

110mph, which is Vy+13

[Brian Scranton]

  On 7/5/2016 at 2:58 AM, Rookie said:

You guys with the io-360 200hp J models.

Does your climb fuel burn and decent fuel burn average close to cruise burn?

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If you don't have a FF meter (I don't either), here's what you do--use one tank only for the specific thing you need to measure. This will take 2-3 flights:

FLIGHT 1

1) Top off your tanks

2) Fly the climb on one tank. Once you reach your alt, switch to the other tank.

3) Fly the cruise and decent on the other tank. 

4) Figure out your climb burn based on time and gallons used in tank 1

5) Figure out your average burn for cruise + decent based on time and gallons used in tank 2

FLIGHT 2

1) Repeat, but use tank 1 for climb and decent so you can get an accurate cruise burn on tank 2 and extrapolate decent from FLIGHTS 1 and 2. 

Hope this helps!

[ArtVandelay]

Or just get the numbers from the POH...

[Brian Scranton]

  On 7/15/2016 at 7:03 PM, teejayevans said:

Or just get the numbers from the POH...

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My POH (from 1975) doesn't give that info. That would be great, though. 

[ArtVandelay]

  On 7/15/2016 at 7:21 PM, Brian Scranton said:

  On 7/15/2016 at 7:03 PM, teejayevans said:

12 minutes ago, teejayevans said: Or just get the numbers from the POH...

My POH (from 1975) doesn't give that info. That would be great, though. 

Since the OP has a J, he will have it, other IO360 models probably pretty close, FYI:

[N9201A]

+1 on too many variables to simplify in this way. Out west we have mountains and my TO and LDG airport elevations may be way different. Descent profiles in the LA basin are often controller-induced "slam dunks." What's the objective?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[1964-M20E]

Never paid really close attention to it but on a climb from sea level to 100 or 110 I generally burn around 6-7 gallons at WOT, 120IAS.  I start leaning after 3000ft and it takes about 20 to 25 minutes to altitude depending on how soon ATC clears me to my desired altitude.

[1964-M20E]

Never paid really close attention to it but on a climb from sea level to 100 or 110 I generally burn around 6-7 gallons at WOT, 120IAS.  I start leaning after 3000ft and it takes about 20 to 25 minutes to altitude depending on how soon ATC clears me to my desired altitude.