To Keep or Sell - Moving to HI for Two Years

[irishpilot]

Hey all, this is more of a gee-wiz question to see what others think concerning whether to keep or sell a Mooney.  I'm moving to Honolulu for two years and am not taking the Mooney (yes, I price checked a ferry flight with bladders...about $10k, each way...not gonna happen!). It's a '65 M20E that I've owned for about 7 months (wasn't planning on a move to Hawaii). I've put a lot of time and money into it and it is a great flying machine now. I have interest from the local flight school to lease it back for commercial training and complex endorsements.  I really like the plane as I use it every week for commuting (5-7 hrs/wk).  I am not financially constrained, but don't like tying money up where it isn't making me money or going to something I can use.  Mind you, if I sell, then I'll buy another Mooney or A35 Bonanza when I move back.

So, would you keep it or sell? List your main reason for your choice. Thanks in advance for your outlook.

[eman1200]

I could mooney-sit it for you.  it'll be nice and squeaky clean when you get back and might even have an upgrade or two. 

[Samurai Husky]

I would try and sell it and use the flight school as a backup plan. For one, a lot can change in 2 years, you might get stuck there or might decide to stay. Two, flight schools like to talk a lot about lease back, but unless you have a huge flight school, or offer the plane at running cost, it may not get enough hours to be worth it. As a perspective buyer, any plane that is part of a flight school i will look at with skepticism. Even if its on a 100hr plan and meticulously maintained. I see what the trainers go through at my school and some people just dont care. You end up with chips and scratches because they arnt paying attention and step on the wing with a stone stuck in their shoe (just one example where i felt bad for the plane);

The only time i would reconsider is if the loss on the sale of the plane would exceed the 2 years of storing it. Since you wont be flying it, you can just drain the fluids and skip the annuals; Lower your insurance to just storage insurance (i dont know what the term is with planes, with cars they just call it non-operative insurance); All in even with a hanger, i dont see it costing more than 8k for 2 years; Heck, since you dont need connivance, just take it to a airport in the middle of nowhere with super cheap rates and hanger it there. 

Just my 2 cents. 

[carl]

i do agree samurai , if properly put away it will do nicely.

buy , you need it more in Hawaii.

 

Have you asked he question here  " can anyone fly my plane out to Hawaii?" I would love to do that ,but i am stuck in a 9-5 job, or i would do it free of course.

 

then you would have your plane and be able to jump over to the big island , or the smaller islands 

 

[Hank]

If you're pretty sure you will come back in just two years, keep it if you've done lots of fixin up that you don't want to do all over again on the next plane. It shouldn't be hard to find someone to fly it periodically for you. I know someone who went this route, headed up to Alaska and had someone else fly his plane; they paid gas & oil, he continued to pay maintenance and annual (I have no idea about insurance, who paid what).

If the prospect of locating, purchasing and fixin up another Mooney isn't off-putting, or if you may extend your time in paradise, selling may make sense.

Have fun either way, and think of us back here sometime . . .

[Samurai Husky]

15 minutes ago, carl said:

Have you asked he question here  " can anyone fly my plane out to Hawaii?" I would love to do that ,but i am stuck in a 9-5 job, or i would do it free of course.

 

How do you get from mainland to Hawaii in a Mooney?

But I agree, after 3 months in hawaii you're going to wish you had a plane. I had a cousin live there for 5 years going to college. He said after the first year he was done with it. You can only do so much on the island before the thrill wears off and there is nothing to do. 

[N601RX]

I took care of a plane for a friend a few years ago for a couple of years while he was overseas.  I usually flew it every 3 weeks and paid for the fuel.  He still had to pay quite a bit  for hanger, insurance and annual and a few other things.  If you want to keep it it would be more cost effective to put it in a cheaper hanger, pickle the engine and reduce the insurance to non flying status.

[eman1200]

22 minutes ago, Hank said:

If you're pretty sure you will come back in just two years, keep it if you've done lots of fixin up that you don't want to do all over again on the next plane. It shouldn't be hard to find someone to fly it periodically for you. I know someone who went this route, headed up to Alaska and had someone else fly his plane; they paid gas & oil, he continued to pay maintenance and annual (I have no idea about insurance, who paid what).

 

this is the greatest idea ever, Hank. 

[Jerry 5TJ]

18 minutes ago, Samurai Husky said:

How do you get from mainland to Hawaii in a Mooney?

 Well, it is about 2,010 nmi from Northern California to Hilo.  In my old "C" that's about 125 gallons.  Say 150 including some reserve.  Put a 100 gallon ferry tank in the cabin.  Take off at about 2800 pounds, under 110 percent of gross on ferry permit.  Lean carefully.  Around 14 hours later, you're on the big island.  

[Samurai Husky]

yea, i just saw that they made Ferry tanks; I had no idea that even existed; 

http://www.turtlepac.com/products/collapsible-aircraft-ferry-tanks.html

I also saw someone fly a 'J' around the world in 2011 with a 66gal tank in the back seat. Thats some crazy stuff, to bad its not practical for regular use. That would be a bucket list dream of mine;

[N601RX]

A couple of years ago a Cirus came up short.  The video is online.

[Piloto]

Sell it and plan to buy an M20J or later model when you come back. That way you do not have the worries but the dreams of your new plane when you come back.

José

[cnoe]

This is an easy one; you get a temporary partner.

Partner buys in at 10% of plane's value with a guaranteed 100% buyback upon your return. You each pay 50% of insurance, routine maintenance, and hangar expenses. Any upgrades are optional but repairs are mandatory. Big ticket no-fault repairs (engine, avionics, airframe) are shared pro-rata 90%-10%. Pilot-induced repairs (prop dings, dents, incidental damage) are paid by PIC. Insurance covers major damage.

Upon return owner buys out partner at 100%, or they make a new deal. If at any time the partner is not happy with the deal he can walk out forfeiting the original 10% with no further commitment.

Partner gets to experience ownership at less than half the cost with full access to the plane. Many would jump at such an opportunity. Owner gets an equity partner who keeps the plane active and in good flying condition. Win win.

I did this in the past and it worked very well. My previous partner and I are still friends.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ArtVandelay]

A couple of years ago a Cirus came up short.  The video is online.

I assume like continental US, winds at altitude usually from West.

Assuming a 15 hr flight, you might need to rig a way of adding oil depending on your oil consumption.

[eman1200]

8 minutes ago, cnoe said:

This is an easy one; you get a temporary partner.

Partner buys in at 10% of plane's value with a guaranteed 100% buyback upon your return. You each pay 50% of insurance, routine maintenance, and hangar expenses. Any upgrades are optional but repairs are mandatory. Big ticket no-fault repairs (engine, avionics, airframe) are shared pro-rata 90%-10%. Pilot-induced repairs (prop dings, dents, incidental damage) are paid by PIC. Insurance covers major damage.

Upon return owner buys out partner at 100%, or they make a new deal. If at any time the partner is not happy with the deal he can walk out forfeiting the original 10% with no further commitment.

Partner gets to experience ownership at less than half the cost with full access to the plane. Many would jump at such an opportunity. Owner gets an equity partner who keeps the plane active and in good flying condition. Win win.

I did this in the past and it worked very well. My previous partner and I are still friends.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

.....Paging irishpilot..........

[Geoff]

I faced this same dilemma when stationed in the UK. I chose to sell but the market was too soft at the time.  Ended up having a friend fly it now and then to keep it reasonably healthy. That said when I returned there was a long list of minor squawks that needed attention. Normal things that I would have taken care of along the way just all piled up waiting for me. 

Long way to say sell if you can for a price you are happy with. 

Airplanes don't appreciate any more so when you get back you will have more buying power and likely more visibility into things like ADSB and alternative fuel. Plus you will hav saved all the fixed costs, hangar, insurance etc. 

[kpaul]

2 hours ago, Samurai Husky said:

I also saw someone fly a 'J' around the world in 2011 with a 66gal tank in the back seat. Thats some crazy stuff, to bad its not practical for regular use. That would be a bucket list dream of mine;

CarolAnn Garratt has done it three times in her J.  http://alsworldflight.als.net/OurStory.aspx

[kpaul]

2 hours ago, teejayevans said:

Assuming a 15 hr flight, you might need to rig a way of adding oil depending on your oil consumption

What is your average per hour oil burn? 

[XXX]

Kpaul Hello!

It was a pleasure making your acquaintance today at OCF and checking out your beautiful "F" model. Thanks for taking the time to show her off.

My engine has around 90 hours SMOH. I added 3 quarts between oil changes at 42 hours.

Steve

[kpaul]

1 minute ago, Chupacabra said:

Kpaul Hello!

It was a pleasure making your acquaintance today at OCF and checking out your beautiful "F" model. Thanks for taking the time to show her off.

My engine has around 90 hours SMOH. I added 3 quarts between oil changes at 42 hours.

Steve

Steve,  Funny I just sent you a PM.  Hit me up if you are ever up in the panhandle.

I figure I average about 1 qt per 10 hours of oil burn.

 

[Hank]

I heard another Mooney somewhere this morning, as I was in and out of Andalusia, 0930-1030-1200-1230.

[ArtVandelay]

2 hours ago, teejayevans said: Assuming a 15 hr flight, you might need to rig a way of adding oil depending on your oil consumption

What is your average per hour oil burn? 

After an oil change 0.1/hr, after 25 hrs it goes up to 0.2/hr, I have 1800+ hrs on the engine.

[kpaul]

2 hours ago, teejayevans said:

After an oil change 0.1/hr, after 25 hrs it goes up to 0.2/hr, I have 1800+ hrs on the engine.

So realistically, I would assume no one would attempt this flight without being on a fresh oil change. Specifically in your case 1.5 qts of burn would not really be an issue.  When I talked to CarolAnn Garratt last weekend she was saying that at couple of points along the flight she had staged maintenance.  She figured she would never have needed a oil change since she would have actually replaced all of the oil in the system through burn.  She also pulls and rotates the plugs every oil change.  It was crazy with the extra tanks she had 24 hours of endurance.

[kpaul]

8 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

 

Hey, kpaul. Was that you I heard on 122.8 over at Defuniak today?  I was on the same frequency at Tri-County, between 1030 and 1200 CDT.  Lots of Mooneys flying in the panhandle today.

Jim

 

 

9 hours ago, Chupacabra said:

Kpaul Hello!

It was a pleasure making your acquaintance today at OCF and checking out your beautiful "F" model. Thanks for taking the time to show her off.

My engine has around 90 hours SMOH. I added 3 quarts between oil changes at 42 hours.

Steve

 

8 hours ago, Hank said:

I heard another Mooney somewhere this morning, as I was in and out of Andalusia, 0930-1030-1200-1230.

Jim, Steve, Hank,

Any interest in a NW Florida, S. Alabama unofficial Mooney fly in?  I will start a new topic so I don't push this train further off the tracks. 

 

Edited May 1, 2016 by kpaul

[Browncbr1]

If you're like me, you spend about $10k per year flying.  Sell the plane, save $20k, and then you can purchase a J maybe like polito said.  You've probably learned a lot since owning your mooney, so you will know what to look for when you get back.     

While you're there, join a club and island hop on occasion to keep yourself current. 

Edited May 1, 2016 by Browncbr1