Any words of wisdom for a new 1964 M20E owner?

[HRM]

1 hour ago, Mooneymite said:

20 Hours of dual?

Really?  Or did you mean 2.0 hours?

It's a Mooney, not a spaceplane.  Despite what we Mooneyspace minions say about having to be superior pilots, the Mooney is really a pretty predicable airplane.  My neighbor just transitioned to a TBM 850 (from a Corvalis) and it didn't take 20 hours!!!

My insurance sentence (DK just loves that phrase--not!) was 10 hours, more than sufficient for an AC that doesn't really need a pilot. You do not fly an E, you merge with it and fly united.

[DXB]

Maybe 20 of dual spread out over time.  I bought mine with a fresh PPL and 80 hrs of time in a Warrior only.  My insurance mandated 10 dual, then 5 solo before passengers .Instructor wanted to sign me off after 7 or 8 for complex, but in retrospect an initial 10 of dual was about right.  More dual after the 10 maybe was worthwhile after some solo practice. 

[gsxrpilot]

Yeah I bought my C with 300 hours total time in my log book. Insurance wanted 5 hours dual and 5 hours solo. I got the 5 hours dual and then flew it home. 260 hours later I'm still getting better at flying her. But that 5 hours of dual was plenty. They're easy to fly, easy to land. You'll love it.

[Bob_Belville]

I'm with Mooneymite. 20 hours of dual will get you from first flight to a PPL.

I joined a flying club in Nashville in 1969 with a fresh PPL (earned in C150s) and less than 50 hours total, probably 25 PIC . Check out with the club's safety officer was 1.8 hours for their Cherokee 140 and 5.8 hours.for their M20E.

I had only flown C150s, a C172, and the PA28-140 prior to the M20E. I'm sure someone with more total time and experience with constant speed prop, retractable gear would not have needed that much transition time.

[Hank]

18 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

. . . and 5.8 hours.for their M20E.

I had only flown C150s, a C172, and the PA28-140 prior to the M20E. I'm sure someone with more total time and experience with constant speed prop, retractable gear would not have needed that much transition time.

What has changed now is increased insurance requirements and the introduction of the Complex Endorsement. Guess too many people were pranging their Mooneys, and the insurance co's got tired of paying for propellers, engines, belly skins, etc. I bought half of my Mooney in 2007, because with 62 hours total and a damp certificate, I was not insurable as a sole owner (five weeks and 10 hours post-checkride). They required 15 hours dual from their instructor, including 5 hours real/simulated IMC because Mooneys are traveling machines. If using another instructor, they would have added 10 hours solo, too.

The instructor commented that I was ready to go well before the 15 hours ended, but we'd have both been in trouble with the insurance company had I done so and anything at all happened. So we just flew to every airport within about a hundred nm, landed, and went home, turning avgas into noise all around Huntington, WV. At least it was pretty, although quite warm on the ground in July and August. Learned about flying high then, too.   The air conditioning was worth the (short) climb!

[bonal]

With a bit less than 300 hours I transitioned from. C150 to my M20c with 5 hrs dual and 5 solo that was enough for my CFI and my insurance co. Once again congrats on your new baby

 

[MTNM20E]

The previous owner had the engine removed to check out an issue he was having.  It was determined that the lower half should be rebuilt.  The engine didn't have enough time on it to justify a complete overhaul.  In addition most of the accessories are original so we will be replacing them just to play it safe. Some additional upgrades are being discussed based upon budget such as a pro-power alternator.  Any other ideas while the engine is off the aircraft? A mechanic locally mentioned having the engine mounts sleeved while another indicated the visual inspection for cracking wasn't a big deal?

[Hank]

Check foremost gear biscuit upgrade. Old ones have four, new ones have three.mcheck for biscuit wear and age, too. The manufacture date is molded in to the outer edge of each biscuit; if they're over 10 years, think about replacing them soon. I misread the dates on mine because they were upside down--I thought they said "09-96" but they were really "06-69"! It rides, taxis and lands much better now.

[MTNM20E]

Insurance is just requiring a signoff by a flight instructor that meets their insurance minimums.  I have a fair amount of multi time so I think that might have helped.  I am not currently current however so I will stick with an instructor until we both agree that I have knocked off all of the rust and am proficient and safe in the aircraft.

[Marauder]

The previous owner had the engine removed to check out an issue he was having.  It was determined that the lower half should be rebuilt.  The engine didn't have enough time on it to justify a complete overhaul.  In addition most of the accessories are original so we will be replacing them just to play it safe. Some additional upgrades are being discussed based upon budget such as a pro-power alternator.  Any other ideas while the engine is off the aircraft? A mechanic locally mentioned having the engine mounts sleeved while another indicated the visual inspection for cracking wasn't a big deal?

If the engine is out, definitely consider replacing the engine mounts. Especially if they are more than a few years old.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[PTK]

On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 0:06 AM, MTNM20E said:

Any words of wisdom for a new 1964 M20E owner?       

...Let it bE, let it bE
Let it bE, let it bE
Yeah, there will bE an answer, let it bE
Let it bE, let it bE
Let it bE, let it bE
Whisper words of wisdom, let it bE

Let it bE, let it bE
Ah, let it bE, yeah, let it bE
Whisper words of wisdom, let it bE....

....And when the night is cloudy
There is still a light that shines on me
Shine on until tomorrow, let it bE
I wake up to the sound of music,
Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it bE

Let it bE, let it bE
Let it bE, yeah, let it bE
Oh, there will bE an answer, let it bE
Let it bE, let it bE
Let it bE, yeah, let it bE
Whisper words of wisdom, let it bE ....

[Mooneymite]

2 hours ago, Marauder said:

If the engine is out, definitely consider replacing the engine mounts. Especially if they are more than a few years old.

Engine out is a great time to change out all the hoses, too.  

[Bob_Belville]

And check the age of the throttle, mixture, prop cables. They are easier to replace while the engine is off.  McFarlane recommends replacing cables on engine overhaul frequency so in the cables are older that the engine it is time to install new one. The Three cables will cost about $1000. (I think yout mechanic will tell you that McFarlane is preferred over the cheaper ACS. I note that Aircraft Spruce is now offering McFarlane. When I replaced all mine last year Spruce was featuring ACS. My plane had ACS that were over 15 years old... there was slop in the prop cable and the mixture cable was extremely stiff when cold.)  

http://www.mcfarlaneaviation.com/Content.aspx?ID=6554170&Article=11

[HRM]

1 hour ago, PTK said:

...Let it bE, let it bE
Let it bE, let it bE
Yeah, there will bE an answer, let it bE
Let it bE, let it bE
Let it bE, let it bE
Whisper words of wisdom, let it bE

Let it bE, let it bE
Ah, let it bE, yeah, let it bE
Whisper words of wisdom, let it bE....

....And when the night is cloudy
There is still a light that shines on me
Shine on until tomorrow, let it bE
I wake up to the sound of music,
Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it bE

Let it bE, let it bE
Let it bE, yeah, let it bE
Oh, there will bE an answer, let it bE
Let it bE, let it bE
Let it bE, yeah, let it bE
Whisper words of wisdom, let it bE ....

Basterd! Now I'll have this tune in my head all day...wait...that'll be super.

(I am singing bE as a drawn bee-ee.)

[Seth]

Congrats!  The E is a fantastic airplane and a great runway performer.  The lightest 200 HP Mooney out there.

Like others have said, get a good checkout by a Mooney Specific instructor.  It's all about landing speeds in the pattern - nail your numbers, and you'll be fine.  Go around if it doesn't look/feel right.

Do yourself a favor and check the Spar Cap right now for corrosion before you spend any more money on your bird.  I know this was probably checked during the prebuy insepction, but do yourself a favor and have it rechecked!  This is an area where if not inspected and corrosion is indeed present, can condemn the airplane.  

If your mechanic doesn't know what this means, get a new mechanic.

The repair for corrosion can be simple if it is surface or light corrosion, but if it gets any deeper, a $500 repair turns into a $30,000 repair.

We have a had a few cases on this board of those with C/E vintage having their aircraft parted out and getting new ones vs spending $30,000 for the repair.

Just take a look and ensure your are in good shape.

Welcome to the Mooney club - it's a passion and you have literally the best performance and build for the money.

 

-Seth

[Mooneymite]

Just now, Barcho said:

I took him to say that he was a NEW pilot with LIMITED experience in any aircraft and ZERO complex time.  So yes, since it's a requirement to have 10 hours of dual for his complex endorsement, I don't think it's out of line to suggest he spend another 10 on specifics of his E.  

There's a 10 hour requirement for a complex endorsement?  Really?

Never heard of it.  Because my licence was issued prior to 97, I never got one. 

10 hours?  It just ain't that tough!  

Of course, not all dual is equal.  if you have a poor instructor, it might take one 10 hours to learn the differences.

http://www.jetairgroup.com/flight-school/training-courses/complex-endorsement/

[Mooneymite]

Just now, Barcho said:

Again... I understood him to say that he had limited hours in any aircraft.  If my encouragement of safety and proficiency of  a new Mooney owner offends you, then I apologize.  While you pick apart random posts with your time, I think I will go fly.  Enjoy your day!

My apology....no offense meant; your post took me by surprise.  However, going flying is always a good thing....especially in a Mooney.  

I'm just grumpy because I can't (don't want to) go flying today:

KATL	241552Z 20019G28KT 10SM BKN040 BKN060 14/07 A2953 RMK AO2 PK WND 22035/1502 SLP996 T01440067

[mpg]

25 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

There's a 10 hour requirement for a complex endorsement?  Really?

Never heard of it.  Because my licence was issued prior to 97, I never got one. 

10 hours?  It just ain't that tough!  

Of course, not all dual is equal.  if you have a poor instructor, it might take one 10 hours to learn the differences.

http://www.jetairgroup.com/flight-school/training-courses/complex-endorsement/

There's a 10 hour requirement for a complex endorsement?  Really?

Never heard of it.  Because my licence was issued prior to 97, I never got one. 

 

I wont debate all of the points in this thread,

it is all interesting, good stuff,  but,,,

I got my PPL in 1978,,, does your post mean that I am NOT required to get a complex endorsement

in order to fly a Mooney?

[Mooneymite]

1 minute ago, mpg said:

I got my PPL in 1978,,, does your post mean that I am NOT required to get a complex endorsement

in order to fly a Mooney?

Depends on what's in your logbook:

(2) The training and endorsement required by paragraph (e)(1) of this section is not required if the person has logged flight time as pilot in command of a complex airplane, or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of a complex airplane prior to August 4, 1997.

"Requirement" does not necessarly equate to "best practice", or what your insurance company says.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Mooneymite

[mpg]

17 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

Depends on what's in your logbook:

(2) The training and endorsement required by paragraph (e)(1) of this section is not required if the person has logged flight time as pilot in command of a complex airplane, or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of a complex airplane prior to August 4, 1997.

"Requirement" does not necessarly equate to "best practice", or what your insurance company says.

Thanks for that info..

I was looking for the FAA rules, and now I see them.  I was not negating best practices...

Although I was never PIC of a complex,,  I did get to ride in some with my uncle.

Maybe if im lucky, in the future, I will need the endorsement.

 

[drapo]

Congrats to a new Super 21 owner!  I always refer to it as the Porsche Carrera of general aviation. Handling, speed and fast even standing still, my kind of airplane.

If you want to tour America with the wife, two kids and a dog, there's always a good ole Ford Station wagon or a Minivan...

My insurance company also asked for ten hours dual and five hours with six take-off/landing prior to carrying passengers. 

Blue skies in your "Brand new to you" 64 M20E 

[steingar]

5 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

There's a 10 hour requirement for a complex endorsement?  Really?

Never heard of it.  Because my licence was issued prior to 97, I never got one. 

10 hours?  It just ain't that tough!  

If you say so.  I got ten for my complex endorsement.  I had to do it all at once, which kinda sucked.  Actually, total aviation days would have been wonderful had it not been for the heat.

But I digress.  Once I was turned out solo I was nothing but behind the airplane.  I was originally going to take Mrs. Steingar up for  flight once I flew off my 5 hours solo, but I told her I wasn't taking her until I felt more ahead of the aircraft.  Maybe I'm just a moron pilot who can't pick anything up.  But I have the suspicion that the insurance companies didn't pull that ten hour number out of their collective sixes.

[Mooneymite]

5 minutes ago, steingar said:

I had to do it all at once, which kinda sucked. 

Yeah....pity the poor, low-time student pilots that had to do high-performance AND complex checkout with their first 10 hours!

 

Edited February 24, 2016 by Mooneymite

[C-GHIJ]

1 hour ago, Mooneymite said:

Yeah....pity the poor, low-time student pilots that had to do high-performance AND complex checkout with their first 10 hours!

 

Oh, that would be Sooooo much fun to fly.  I have an hour of T6 time, it was a hoot.

[Mooneymite]

1 minute ago, C-GHIJ said:

Oh, that would be Sooooo much fun to fly.  I have an hour of T6 time, it was a hoot.

It would have been so much more fun if that Marine instructor in the back seat had ever stopped hitting me in the helmet for doing bone-headed things.