GTX 345 rather GDL 88 & Flightstream

[Seth]

The new Garmin GTX 345 is a better solution potentially for me in my ADSB compliance.

I have a Garmin 430W, and an Aera 560 panel mounted and interconnected (batter backup GPS for situational awareness and WX weather the 9.99 plan).  

I now have a Stratus 2 for the ipad mini which will soon be mounted on my yoke (I just hold it like paper maps at this point).

I want traffic and weather on the Garmin 430W and or whatever I upgrade at some point to (Garmin650/750).

I have a KT76A transopnder.

I was going to get a GDL 88 and potentially Flightstream as well so that the ADSB signals would feed to the ipad and also to the panel mounts.  

The GTX 345 does that, and I can get the lesser expensive version (as I have a WAAS position source in the 430W).  

So, the benefits of the GDL 88 and Flighstream: 

-flight plan changes from Ipad to 430W which is great

-anonymous VFR flight if I want it - not sure if this is going to be important or not

-No flights over 18,000 feet

-Not sure about international regulations

 

GTX 345 no flightstream

-Less boxes

-Only loose the flight plan portion of ipad to 430W and visa versa

-Still get weather and traffic on Ipad

-Replaces aging transponder

-I can still prewire for flightstream and install the box later.

-Mode S transponder - I'm always known when flying with the transponder on.

 

Thoughts?

 

-Seth

[donkaye]

3 hours ago, Seth said:

The new Garmin GTX 345 is a better solution potentially for me in my ADSB compliance.

I have a Garmin 430W, and an Aera 560 panel mounted and interconnected (batter backup GPS for situational awareness and WX weather the 9.99 plan).  

I now have a Stratus 2 for the ipad mini which will soon be mounted on my yoke (I just hold it like paper maps at this point).

I want traffic and weather on the Garmin 430W and or whatever I upgrade at some point to (Garmin650/750).

I have a KT76A transopnder.

I was going to get a GDL 88 and potentially Flightstream as well so that the ADSB signals would feed to the ipad and also to the panel mounts.  

The GTX 345 does that, and I can get the lesser expensive version (as I have a WAAS position source in the 430W).  

So, the benefits of the GDL 88 and Flighstream: 

-flight plan changes from Ipad to 430W which is great

-anonymous VFR flight if I want it - not sure if this is going to be important or not

-No flights over 18,000 feet

-Not sure about international regulations

 

GTX 345 no flightstream

-Less boxes

-Only loose the flight plan portion of ipad to 430W and visa versa

-Still get weather and traffic on Ipad

-Replaces aging transponder

-I can still prewire for flightstream and install the box later.

-Mode S transponder - I'm always known when flying with the transponder on.

 

Thoughts?

 

-Seth

The Flight Stream 210 is so inexpensive that I think you would save money overall if you install both at the same time.

[Seth]

If I do both, does it cost anything to hook up the KT76A to the GDL 88?

 

Some have said yes, some no.

 

GDL-88 + FS210 and keep old transponder

or

GTX 345 + maybe FS210

 

[ArtVandelay]

If I do both, does it cost anything to hook up the KT76A to the GDL 88?

 

Some have said yes, some no.

 

GDL-88 + FS210 and keep old transponder

or

GTX 345 + maybe FS210

 

It cost money if you need an encoder for the installation of 88, I had multiple devices installed, I ended up just upgrading to KT74 instead of paying $500 for the encoder.

[M016576]

Or...  KT-74 + IFD440.

ifd440 has built in wifi and Bluetooth, so no need for a flightstream, install costs are low as both kt74 and IFD 440 are slide in replacements for your current hardware.

~5 Amu's saved in install costs alone over GTN+GTX+flight stream.  Another 6 Amu's saved in hardware.

or, if you have 10K extra to burn for this upgrade and love the Garmin interface, then go that route.  The best panel is the one you know how to use (flawlessly).....

Edited February 19, 2016 by M016576

[kortopates]

I am planning to go with the GTX345 with Flightstream 210. The 345X doesn't in anyway influence the value of FS210 since for me it was integration with the Garmin GPS (not wx from a GDL 88). As least for the G500 panel, the 345X seems do everything the GDL 88 did with respect to providing dual band ADS-B In, plus it provides integration to the iPad, but you still need the FS to provide integration with the GPSs. Originally I was going to rely on a remote mounted GDL 39R for ipad AdsB in because the GDL88 was so expensive in comparison (~$4K) but I can't pass up the G500 integration provided at the same price of a ES transponder plus the cost of GDL39. Plus one box less to install as you point out.

(I don't know of any interface between the KT76A and the GDL88 except for maybe squawk code and I wasn't sure if that as a wired interface or the GDL listened for it - I just was not aware how that worked)

[kortopates]

1 minute ago, M016576 said:

Or...  KT-74 + IFD440.

ifd440 has built in wifi and Bluetooth, so no need for a flightstream, install costs are low as both kt74 and IFD 440 are slide in replacements for your current hardware.

~10 Amu's saved in install costs alone over GTN+GTX+flight stream.  Another 4 Amu's saved in hardware.

or, if you have 14K extra to burn for this upgrade and love the Garmin interface, then go that route.  The best panel is the one you know how to use (flawlessly).....

I know the IFD440 has built-in wifi and bluetooth but last I heard there was no s/w support support for it. Has that changed? 

Before you can talk about AMU savings, where is the ADS-B In capability in the KT-74 + IFD440 solution? I see none - only ADS-B out. 

I don't at all disagree with the IFD440 + KT-74 as a great WAAS GPS and ADS-B out solution, but this whole thread regarding the GTX345 is about a new ADS-B In solution option - not just ADS-B out.

[ArtVandelay]

Or...  KT-74 + IFD440.

ifd440 has built in wifi and Bluetooth, so no need for a flightstream, install costs are low as both kt74 and IFD 440 are slide in replacements for your current hardware.

~10 Amu's saved in install costs alone over GTN+GTX+flight stream.  Another 4 Amu's saved in hardware.

or, if you have 14K extra to burn for this upgrade and love the Garmin interface, then go that route.  The best panel is the one you know how to use (flawlessly).....

The KT 74 is not entirely a slide in replacement unless installing it as a mode C transponder, the ADSB function requires a new tray. Upgrading sometimes requires new antennas.

I didn't have choices way back when I had 650 installed, but my installation cost for 650, 88, 210 and 74 were 5 AMUs, not 10.

[Marauder]

If I do both, does it cost anything to hook up the KT76A to the GDL 88?  

Some have said yes, some no.

 

GDL-88 + FS210 and keep old transponder

or

GTX 345 + maybe FS210

 

It cost money if you need an encoder for the installation of 88, I had multiple devices installed, I ended up just upgrading to KT74 instead of paying $500 for the encoder.

I'm trying to remember what happened when I removed my Narco AT-150 and Transcal encoder. I believe the digital transponders like the GTX-327 can take pressure altitude from the GPS and eliminate the need for the encoder. So, if the transponder installed requires an encoder, you will need to have one for the GDL-88 and it needs to be connected.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[M016576]

7 hours ago, kortopates said:

I know the IFD440 has built-in wifi and bluetooth but last I heard there was no s/w support support for it. Has that changed? 

Before you can talk about AMU savings, where is the ADS-B In capability in the KT-74 + IFD440 solution? I see none - only ADS-B out. 

I don't at all disagree with the IFD440 + KT-74 as a great WAAS GPS and ADS-B out solution, but this whole thread regarding the GTX345 is about a new ADS-B In solution option - not just ADS-B out.

K, that's a valid point, I didn't read the op's idea closely enough- when he mentioned that he already had a portable ADSB receiver, I didn't note the IN capability as an additional requirement.  I'll save my thoughts on the utility vs cost of a panel mounted ADSB IN setup vs. a portable receiver for another thread.  For you, with a G500 already though, the 345 certainly makes sense as the lowest cost for the highest return.  Without a G500 though, the question becomes more open.  

If a pilot had got the extra money, and want to get the iPad out of the cockpit, then a GTN650+FS+GTX345 would work.  It will cost over 20 AMUs for a clean install (give or take a few for install costs).  

 

Edited February 19, 2016 by M016576

[M016576]

7 hours ago, teejayevans said:

The KT 74 is not entirely a slide in replacement unless installing it as a mode C transponder, the ADSB function requires a new tray. Upgrading sometimes requires new antennas.

I didn't have choices way back when I had 650 installed, but my installation cost for 650, 88, 210 and 74 were 5 AMUs, not 10.

I overshot on my install cost estimates- you're in the zone: 5AMU's give or take seems right based on a little more research

[mike_elliott]

15 hours ago, Seth said:

The new Garmin GTX 345 is a better solution potentially for me in my ADSB compliance.

I have a Garmin 430W, and an Aera 560 panel mounted and interconnected (batter backup GPS for situational awareness and WX weather the 9.99 plan).  

I now have a Stratus 2 for the ipad mini which will soon be mounted on my yoke (I just hold it like paper maps at this point).

I want traffic and weather on the Garmin 430W and or whatever I upgrade at some point to (Garmin650/750).

I have a KT76A transopnder.

I was going to get a GDL 88 and potentially Flightstream as well so that the ADSB signals would feed to the ipad and also to the panel mounts.  

The GTX 345 does that, and I can get the lesser expensive version (as I have a WAAS position source in the 430W).  

So, the benefits of the GDL 88 and Flighstream: 

-flight plan changes from Ipad to 430W which is great

-anonymous VFR flight if I want it - not sure if this is going to be important or not

-No flights over 18,000 feet

-Not sure about international regulations

 

GTX 345 no flightstream

-Less boxes

-Only loose the flight plan portion of ipad to 430W and visa versa

-Still get weather and traffic on Ipad

-Replaces aging transponder

-I can still prewire for flightstream and install the box later.

-Mode S transponder - I'm always known when flying with the transponder on.

 

Thoughts?

 

-Seth

Consider the L3 Lynx also. Offers a bit more than the 345 for a bit more, but now that the 345 is announced, I suspect that will change.

[Bob - S50]

Seth,

The GTX345 also gives you an AHRS.  While it isn't legal as a backup attitude indicator, if my AI quit in the soup, I'd much rather fly off the GTX AHRS and confirm with the turn and bank than try to fly with just the turn and bank.  To use the AHRS you'll need Garmin Pilot which I suspect you have if you are concerned about transferring flight plans.

TeeJayEvans,

The KT74 may not be a slip in, the Trig TT31 is.  Supposedly they've reprogrammed it so that you can still use the KT76A tray even for ADS-B.  Current price for the TT31 at Pacific Coast is $2390.

Fellow Mooney CBs,

I think the cheapest way to get ADS-B IN/OUT, if you have the popular KT76A is to install the TT31 and use a portable IN solution.  Which one you choose (GDL39 or Stratus or...) depends on what software you use.

With that said, right now I'm leaning toward the GTX345 myself.  One of my partners wants traffic on the GTN.  Only two devices will currently do that, the GDL88 and the GTX345.  I would like traffic on my tablet and not clutter up the GTN display.  The GDL88 can't do that, the GTX345 can.  The GTX can also work with either Garmin Pilot or Foreflight Mobile.  I use Pilot, a couple of my partners use Foreflight.  The GTX makes everybody happy.  Now all I have to do is convince them to spend the extra money.

Plus, I'm a useful load freak.  I don't want to do anything that reduces my useful load.  I'm always looking for ways to increase it.  Plus, the more boxes I have in the plane, the more boxes that can break that I'll have to pay to repair.

I have lots of install questions.  I'm going to the Aviation Trade Show in Puyallup Saturday and plan to ask the guy at the Pacific Coast Avionics booth lots of install questions.  I'll be asking about Freeflight, NavWorx, Garmin, Trig, Lynx, and King.  Some boxes require adding a control panel.  Some require adding more antennas.  Both of those increase install costs and reduce useful load.  Its false economy to buy a cheap box if it costs a small fortune to install all the boxes, panels, and antennas.  If you plan to go to the trade show, I'll be at the Angel Flight West booth from 1100 - 1300.

Bob

[flyboy0681]

9 hours ago, teejayevans said:

It cost money if you need an encoder for the installation of 88, I had multiple devices installed, I ended up just upgrading to KT74 instead of paying $500 for the encoder.

We needed an encoder installed along with our GDL-88 and we were only charged $240 for the ACK A30.9 unit.

[flyboy0681]

There is another advantage to the Flightstream that some may not realize when using it to connect to a 530 or 430. You gain the ability to fly victor airways by defining the route on the iPad and then uploading it to the 530/430.

[ArtVandelay]

Bob,

I'm not sure how that is possible since ADSB requires GPS, unless they had unused connections and use serial interface to transfer the GPS data. I assume tt31 calls out compatible GPS units, bit of an old school tech but I guess it works.

And while 88 won't give you traffic on your iPad, 88+210 does, plus airway support.

Once you have flown with traffic info, you won't want to fly without it, you'll be amazed at the traffic around you that you don't see.

[Seth]

2 hours ago, M016576 said:

K, that's a valid point, I didn't read the op's idea closely enough- when he mentioned that he already had a portable ADSB receiver, I didn't note the IN capability as an additional requirement.  I'll save my thoughts on the utility vs cost of a panel mounted ADSB IN setup vs. a portable receiver for another thread.  For you, with a G500 already though, the 345 certainly makes sense as the lowest cost for the highest return.  Without a G500 though, the question becomes more open.  

If a pilot had got the extra money, and want to get the iPad out of the cockpit, then a GTN650+FS+GTX345 would work.  It will cost over 20 AMUs for a clean install (give or take a few for install costs).  

 

To be clear, I do want traffic and weather on the panel as well as the iPad.  I'll keep the Straus around for other days where I'm flying in another aircraft and only has out to be compliant and I'll have In via stratus and iPad, but for my aircraft I want in and out so I can display on the current 430W and future GPS I may install.

 

-Seth