Gear extension failure / gear up landing

[Yooper Rocketman]

9 hours ago, IndyTim said:

Yeah, I wish I would have gone with shutting down in the flare.  I think that would have been doable, and I also think it would have helped.  As I mentioned, I didn't feel like I could get the 3-bladed prop positioned just right, but shutting down at the last second is something I wish I would have done differently.

Tim,

I questioned whether I should have shut down my Rocket when the oil pressure started dropping during my turbo failure in December.  In retrospect, and after talking with several pilot friends I respect, I think the original two priorities I set were appropriate.  First, I was going to walk away from that incident.  Second, I hoped I could get it down without destroying the plane.  I have read far too many accident reports with fatalities where the pilot lost perspective of the first priority, trying to save the plane, and then died while focusing on the wrong priority.  You had a limited time to decide what to do.  Taking the time since and all the other comments from fellow Mooniacs to reflect is fine, but reality is you didn't have that time or pilot pool on the radio to aid in the decisions made during the heat of the battle.  You will fly again, the plane will fly again, and most importantly, your wife will fly again.  All the rest is just insurance money and water already over the dam.

Tom

[bonal]

I think you did a great job you kept your head about you tried everything you could think of and flew the plane into a safe landing. From what others have said I doubt there was anything  else would have done the trick. Well done pilot!

[wpbarnar]

I recall an article that supports Parker's and others comments about doing the right thing and not shutting the engine down.     The author looked at NTSB data on forced gear up landings.  Those incidents where the pilot tried to shut down the engine had a large number of serious injuries and fatalities versus no reported serious injuries from those who chose to land with power.    The evidence was over whelming not to attemp to land without power.

I am not going to put my passengers or self at risk in an attempt to save the insurance company a little money.   Plus a prop strike is treated the same regardless if the engine is under power, windmilling or stopped.

Bill

[IndyTim]

I'll add two other morning conclusions on how I can deal with emergencies like this more effectively.  First: live in the moment.  Once we had the gear unsafe, my anxiety level went up.  I was working to stay calm, think straight, fly the aircraft.  When I went back through the POH last night, it brought back the memory of how hard it was, in the plane, to find the freaking passage on emergency landing gear extension.  And I know where it is!  

I think I did right to gain altitude, turn on autopilot, and just fly a nice square pattern where I had all the time in the world to figure things out.  What I didn't do was to give myself permission to just hang out in that pattern, all afternoon if necessary, take a few deep breaths, and just work the problem.  Again, It doesn't seem there was much else I could do, but it's a real luxury to have fuel, good weather, and nothing to do but fly in a circle while pondering the issue.  In the future, setting that up and exploiting it if possible will be on my list.

The other thing I wish I would have done better was, um, passenger management.  Taking a minute to explain gear up landings would have been good, I have since learned.  And a critical mistake from a CRM perspective: I should have given my wife the job of helping to scan for traffic while I was sorting out the problem.  She knows to do this anyway, especially down low, but I didn't specifically ask for it then and should have.  I did assign her the task of watching engine temps, but we should have had more eyes outside - it would have given her more to do and possibly saved our bacon.  Passengers like to know they're doing something to help.

Edited February 11, 2016 by IndyTim

[steingar]

For Odin's sake, pilot and pax are safe, and the airplane might even fly again.  I see no reason for the OP to beat himself up about anything.  Yeah, maybe he should have flown in a big square all day, but maybe something else would have gone wrong.  Yeah, maybe Mrs. OP should have been scanning for traffic, but maybe should would have missed the one that slammed into you.  

The outcome is nothing less than stellar.  The airplane is just a thing.  They'll make more.  Folks not so much.  Hats off for a successful gear-up landing.  I only hope i do as well if and when my time comes.

[orionflt]

Tim,

It is always easy to second guess your self and wonder if you could have done things better but you evaluated the situation and made your decision with the information you had at the time. the key thing is you got the plane on the ground safely with no injuries to you or your wife and minimum damage to the plane, in my opinion you did a great job! Having experienced a gear failure in a cessna I understand running thru all the options with no successful solution, I just got lucky and managed to get the gear down after about an hour of trying and retrying everything. if it wasn't early in the day with full tanks of fuel I would have done a belly landing well before actually getting the gear locked down. (my gear failed during retraction after takeoff). by the way I had a team of people working the problem with me and a chase plane confirming my gear situation. the final solution to get the gear locked did not come from the POH or the maintenance manual but from me having time flying around burning off fuel to utilize my 20* years of maintenance experience to think thru the complete landing gear system and it's operation to figure out what was going on and figure out how to get it to release. that being said I still got lucky. once again, great job! don't beat your self up with what you could have done differently.

Brian     

[Marauder]

Tim -- I remember the words of an old time pilot who was discussing inflight emergencies with me. He said the first thing you will notice is "the smell of raw adrenaline in the cockpit".

If you believe you did everything possible, then you did everything possible. Get the plane repaired and get back in the saddle.

I have experienced two gear issues in my years of ownership. The first was with about an hour in my newly acquired plane and at night. I went to extend the gear and all I got was the "gear unsafe" light. Raw adrenaline filled the cockpit. I remembered the words of the guy who sold me the plane. Once in a while the gear breaker pops. It didn't pop for the 5 hours he flew with me, but it sure did on that flight. Reset and all was fine.

The second one was different. Went to retract the gear and the normal up indication was there but the mechanical indicator still showed gear down. Made the decision to fly it for a bit, felt the gear was up and decided to fly 200 miles home that way. Got to my home airport figuring it would be easier to manage the post landing issues on my home turf. Extended the gear electrically and saw a normal gear down indication from the annunciator but the floor indicator never moved. Prepared for a gear up but was fortunate that a pilot was on the ground and answered my request for someone to let me know where my gear was down. It was down and locked. In my post landing "what should I have done?" phase, I beat myself up for not doing the manual gear extension just to make sure. You can always find something you shoulda, coulda or woulda done. It's over, time to move on... Get that beautiful plane back in the air!

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[Spenscot]

Please don't second guess yourself. You did what was necessary to preserve your passenger's and your life and executed a safe emergency landing. That is what good pilots do. As much as we love our planes, they are machines that can be repaired or replaced if necessary. GOOD JOB!

[TWinter]

Tim,

Great job handling a very stressful event. I can only hope if it happens to me I can think as clearly as you did. Good luck on getting her back in the air soon..

 

-Tom

[IndyTim]

12 hours ago, carqwik said:

As others have said, the little "no back spring" is suspect...if one of the tongs breaks, nothing will move the gear...even the emergency extension becomes useless. 

What a bummer...but if the plane let you down, so be it...live to fly another day!

Does anyone have any diagrams of this no back spring?  What does it do?

[M20S Driver]

26 minutes ago, IndyTim said:

Does anyone have any diagrams of this no back spring?  What does it do?

Please see attached.  This is for Eaton Actuators. 

PM me if the link does not work.

Eaton Memo and Instruction on no back spring.htm

sim20-52b no back spring.pdf

[Hank]

4 hours ago, IndyTim said:

What I also woke up thinking about was something else I did NOT try, and now wish I would have. if for no other reason than to know I exhausted every last possibility:  the emergency RETRACTION procedure.  Perhaps that would have unlocked whatever was doing the locking.

Thinking about the power-off-at-flare decision again, on second, or actually third thought, I don't think it would have been good.  Chopping the power, even if low power, right at that point would slightly destabilize the approach, and cause the plane to drop more abruptly onto the gear/doors . . .  So having a controlled, level, straight entry into that phase takes precedence over engine - that's one of my early morning conclusions.  What do y'all think?

On the second point first, many of us agree you did the right thing. Don't try to pull the power, too many other things going on to risk screwing up.

For the "Emergency Retraction" you referenced above, I've never heard of such a thing. If you gear won't go up, either come back and land or fly below Vg to get somewhere it can be fixed. What kind of emergency would require raising troublesome gear and risking the inability to lower it at the flight's conclusion? Does your POH not have a line like the one circled from mine???

[IndyTim]

A few pictures for those interested.  All I had was my cell phone in the hangar, so not a great set of shots there, but they convey damage to underside.

https://indytim.smugmug.com/Defiance/i-hX5Bdwq/A

https://indytim.smugmug.com/Defiance/i-wJH2MLz/A

https://indytim.smugmug.com/Defiance/i-MPVv9wG/A

https://indytim.smugmug.com/Defiance/i-93LdmQR/A

https://indytim.smugmug.com/Defiance/i-w7gxr3s/A

https://indytim.smugmug.com/Defiance/i-pdWGZC9/A

 

[IndyTim]

2 minutes ago, Hank said:

On the second point first, many of us agree you did the right thing. Don't try to pull the power, too many other things going on to risk screwing up.

For the "Emergency Retraction" you referenced above, I've never heard of such a thing. If you gear won't go up, either come back and land or fly below Vg to get somewhere it can be fixed. What kind of emergency would require raising troublesome gear and risking the inability to lower it at the flight's conclusion? Does your POH not have a line like the one circled from mine???

Hank - there is a retraction procedure in my 252.  See attached POH page.

[Hank]

Well, learn something every day. Still think you did a great job of troubleshooting in the air with your wife.

The damage to the plane certainly looks minor, other than the prop and whatever in the engine. She should fly again! More importantly, so will you.

[IndyTim]

11 minutes ago, M20S Driver said:

Please see attached.  This is for Eaton Actuators. 

PM me if the link does not work.

Eaton Memo and Instruction on no back spring.htm

sim20-52b no back spring.pdf

Thanks.  Looks like this is superceded by SB M20-282.  However, that link on Mooney's site is a bad link or the .pdf isn't available.  Anyone have SB M20-282.pdf?

 

[IndyTim]

I''m working through the repair arrangements now.  I have support from the insurer (AIG) to get a Mooney specialist involved in the repair work, even though it will have to be done in Defiance.  Will try to work that out.

So far I'm impressed with AIG.  Great coverage, and they're being very good about making sure we return N252BH to full glory.  I also have substitute aircraft rental coverage and would like to find somewhere in the Midwest to get some Mooney rental time in.  Does anyone have any recommendations?

Also working on finding the best engine shop to do the teardown - Poplar Grove would be at the top of my list.  Any other recommendations, or recent experience with Poplar Grove?

[M20S Driver]

2 hours ago, IndyTim said:

Thanks.  Looks like this is superceded by SB M20-282.  However, that link on Mooney's site is a bad link or the .pdf isn't available.  Anyone have SB M20-282.pdf?

 

This is from 2003.

282.pdf

[steingar]

My one mantra when I fly is if something goes wrong the airplane belongs to the insurance company.  My job is to get the pilot and pax safely back down.

[thinwing]

I have also had 2 retract gear issues and they both really turned out differently. First was a failure of nose gear to extend and after three cycles I called for help Finally got a really nervous student pilot willing to observe nose wheel retraction cycle and confirm mains would extend and nose wheel doors were open but no nose wheel down..Normal retraction though and  nose wheel doors did close.This last point was important because I was flying a Lake Amphibian and there was a reservoir 5 miles away.Splashdown was normal and upon beaching in 3 ft of water I was able to attempt retraction ( hydraulic actuators ) and the nose wheel again refused to comedown .I than got the bright idea to throw on a diving mask and grab the nose wheel with my hands and using feet against the bottom of hull for leverage .Remember I am in three ft of water...know what happened next??With 1000 psi built up in hydraulic accumulator nose wheel came down with a whoosh pinning me by the chest to the lake bottom!!I of course did not panic ( yeah right ) and after several anxious moments twisting and turning underwater managed to come up gasping!!Now what...gear is down and won't retract so I can't make a water take off.Fortunately the marina operator was really cool hand Luke and says highway to the boat ramp has a 900 ft straight stretch to it ...that's enough says I and he helped me clear curious onlookers as I taxied up boat ramp ,through the entrance ,pay booth (two stop signs one bill board bent out of the way to clear wingtip ) to the high way .I paced off the straight stretch and dropped my hat in the middle as a center guide / no go spot.The amphib was off 200 ft before the hat...Two weeks later I get a package in the mail  ..it contains my hat,copy's of photos of taxi and takeoff and a bill for 20 bucks labor to fix the bill board and stop signs.Nose wheel fixed later with some shimming and actuator adjustment .Snd gear issue was in a Baron ,( broken actuator rod from a hard landing two weeks before )that one didn't turnout so well and totaled a really sweet D55..Glad you were safe ..k

 

 

 

[IndyTim]

@thinwing that gets my vote for a truly epic gear story.  Especially the part about taxiing through the pay booth.

[cnoe]

Thinwing, with just a bit more embellishment this might interest the Coen brothers.

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[cliffy]

As Bob Hoover says, "fly it as far into the crash as you can"  Good job!

Don't second guess what you did. You did good

I'll bet it took a lot of power to taxi it to the ramp  :-)   :-)

Standing buy for more information

[Two Oh One]

1 hour ago, cliffy said:

As Bob Hoover says, "fly it as far into the crash as you can"  Good job!

That sums it up entirely.  With power off you just fly it on, feels just like the end of any other power off 180 a commercial pilot has done hundreds of times.  If you're not totally comfortable with it or used to it, or you're nutted up by the circumstances, for sure don't try it on for size in a real emergency. If it's gusty out and the flare is tricky, probably not a good idea either, for obvious reasons.  

Anybody who thinks it's not a good idea is totally OK with me.  But depending on multiple factors, the plane may not "belong to the insurance company" when the slide stops.  Power off left me much more confident in the parts the engine shop sent back to me, the parts insurance didn't replace.  And it was no big deal, to me, that evening.

Energy management was Hoover's bread and butter, and is the key with power off. (intentionally or otherwise...)

[BDPetersen]

I suppose knowing it was a nose gear issue might have inspired an engine shut down after landing during rollout. I had a similar nose gear failure due to broken linkage on the C310. Managed to feather both engines after touchdown and even though both props (3blade) stopped in inverted Y position, only one blade on each was scrapped. But in your case saving the prop wasn't an option, and you were destined for a TDI anyway. So, good work.