Door keeps popping open

[Bob_Belville]

I am not positive that the outside handle locks the top hook. 

The only time I had the door pop open happened after my A&P had climbed out after checking on something with the engine running. He closed the outside handle tight. I taxied out and took off without checking the inside handle. I was at 5000' when I noticed air noise. When I touched the handle the door popped out into trail. 

With my new vent in the door I can probably verify w/o a helper.

[Cyril Gibb]

29 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

I am not positive that the outside handle locks the top hook. 

The only time I had the door pop open happened after my A&P had climbed out after checking on something with the engine running. He closed the outside handle tight. I taxied out and took off without checking the inside handle. I was at 5000' when I noticed air noise. When I touched the handle the door popped out into trail. 

With my new vent in the door I can probably verify w/o a helper.

 

There's only one mechanism.  The external and internal handles operate the same horizontal rod, which inturn operates the rods going up to the top latch.  At least it does on my '75 F.

[Hank]

50 minutes ago, Cyril Gibb said:

There's only one mechanism.  The external and internal handles operate the same horizontal rod, which inturn operates the rods going up to the top latch.  At least it does on my '75 F.

Top latch . . . Top latch . . . When did they start putting in top latches? My 1970 C only has the one down by the handle.

[Bob_Belville]

8 hours ago, Hank said:

Top latch . . . Top latch . . . When did they start putting in top latches? My 1970 C only has the one down by the handle.

Your '70C does not have a "hook" in the middle of the top of the door? (Unlike a Cherokee, there is only one handle that operates both mechanisms. Well, two if you count inside and outside.

Cyril,  you're probably right, I'll confirm that my '66E is the same. 

[Cyril Gibb]

1 hour ago, Bob_Belville said:

Your '70C does not have a "hook" in the middle of the top of the door? (Unlike a Cherokee, there is only one handle that operates both mechanisms. Well, two if you count inside and outside.

Cyril,  you're probably right, I'll confirm that my '66E is the same. 

It seem that there's several different versions of latches, so YMMV.

One additional thing I noticed when I had a whole day of door adjustment frustration that may only apply to my incantation. The rod that goes up the forward side of the door frame to get to the latch/catch/hook or whatever was sticking and sometimes sort of sprung the over centre back out.

It had two causes:

There was one trim screw that was just barely long enough and in the wrong place to brush the point against the control rod now and then.  That was frustrating because it would only show up after I had the trim reinstalled... and only now and again.

The second was lubrication.  In my plane, the actuator rod travels through a couple of guide tubes about 3" long in the channel.  There's no way to get lube to them even with one of Clarences looooong tubes on a Triflow can.  Solution was to carefully drill a 1/8" hole in the inner door frame just above each tube so I could flood it with Triflow and let it run down the rod into the tube.

[DXB]

I sorely regret having to update this thread, but I still HATE my door.  It used to pop open on climb out, hence this thread.  Folks here correctly suggested adjusting over center mechanism. Unfortunately the door latch in my plane does not have an adjustment for over center  - per my MSC, this only appeared on later planes.  Instead my mechanic suggested changing my door seal.  The hardware store foam seal I'd previously installed was not creating enough closing pressure, and he thought this left enough play in the door to allow it to pop open.  

So he put in a factory door seal last winter, and this seemed to work.  The door was a little tough to pull shut, but doable, and it didn't pop open any more.  

But now, when the weather turned warm, the door has become nearly impossible to close from the inside - it requires a huge inward pull on the handle to get the door to latch - typically requiring multiple attempts that leave me gasping and sweating. It also leaves my passenger feeling groped and violated from reaching across them and is generally not a great way to start a flight.   It's not hard to close from the outside - probably because there's more leverage to compress the seal from the more rearward mounted door handle. I think the air cells in the seal foam have expanded with the increased temps. I always store the plane in the hangar with the door shut, hoping that this will compress some of the springy-ness out of the seal, but no luck so far.   

Has anyone else experienced similar and found an elegant solution?

[Cyril Gibb]

I used door seals from Aircraft Spruce.... "Aircraft Door Seals LLC".  I found that the seal requires a firm closure initially but then takes a set that stays the same regardless of temperature.

[takair]

1 hour ago, DXB said:

I sorely regret having to update this thread, but I still HATE my door.  It used to pop open on climb out, hence this thread.  Folks here correctly suggested adjusting over center mechanism. Unfortunately the door latch in my plane does not have an adjustment for over center  - per my MSC, this only appeared on later planes.  Instead my mechanic suggested changing my door seal.  The hardware store foam seal I'd previously installed was not creating enough closing pressure, and he thought this left enough play in the door to allow it to pop open.  

So he put in a factory door seal last winter, and this seemed to work.  The door was a little tough to pull shut, but doable, and it didn't pop open any more.  

But now, when the weather turned warm, the door has become nearly impossible to close from the inside - it requires a huge inward pull on the handle to get the door to latch - typically requiring multiple attempts that leave me gasping and sweating. It also leaves my passenger feeling groped and violated from reaching across them and is generally not a great way to start a flight.   It's not hard to close from the outside - probably because there's more leverage to compress the seal from the more rearward mounted door handle. I think the air cells in the seal foam have expanded with the increased temps. I always store the plane in the hangar with the door shut, hoping that this will compress some of the springy-ness out of the seal, but no luck so far.   

Has anyone else experienced similar and found an elegant solution?

Dev

With the door open, look for a pinch point or a few.  By this I mean that the seal can migrate to a location with minimal clearance. I have found that moving or trimming the seal as little as 1/16" can help with his situation.  It is a tough compromise because moving it too far will cause leaks.  Another way to do this is by closing the door from outside and narrowing down where the pressure point is.  

 

[DXB]

16 hours ago, takair said:

Dev

With the door open, look for a pinch point or a few.  By this I mean that the seal can migrate to a location with minimal clearance. I have found that moving or trimming the seal as little as 1/16" can help with his situation.  It is a tough compromise because moving it too far will cause leaks.  Another way to do this is by closing the door from outside and narrowing down where the pressure point is.  

 

Thanks- this is the sensible thing to do- I'm a little scared to trim for fear of overdoing or getting the wrong spot.  I guess there's no magical hack for this.  The 1960's fit and finish on these planes is suboptimal.

[Bob_Belville]

18 hours ago, DXB said:

I sorely regret having to update this thread, but I still HATE my door.  It used to pop open on climb out, hence this thread.  Folks here correctly suggested adjusting over center mechanism. Unfortunately the door latch in my plane does not have an adjustment for over center  - per my MSC, this only appeared on later planes.  Instead my mechanic suggested changing my door seal.  The hardware store foam seal I'd previously installed was not creating enough closing pressure, and he thought this left enough play in the door to allow it to pop open.  

So he put in a factory door seal last winter, and this seemed to work.  The door was a little tough to pull shut, but doable, and it didn't pop open any more.  

But now, when the weather turned warm, the door has become nearly impossible to close from the inside - it requires a huge inward pull on the handle to get the door to latch - typically requiring multiple attempts that leave me gasping and sweating. It also leaves my passenger feeling groped and violated from reaching across them and is generally not a great way to start a flight.   It's not hard to close from the outside - probably because there's more leverage to compress the seal from the more rearward mounted door handle. I think the air cells in the seal foam have expanded with the increased temps. I always store the plane in the hangar with the door shut, hoping that this will compress some of the springy-ness out of the seal, but no luck so far.   

Has anyone else experienced similar and found an elegant solution?

I replaced the seal on my door a couple of yours ago with a factory seal. It was tough to close for a while and I did have to do a slight amount of trimming. If I have a passenger I have them pull hard, not slam, and hold door in tight with the strap below the window and then I latch the handle. Without pulling tight with that strap I do not think I could get the door in far enough to latch.

[takair]

One other thought.  I also use DC4 lubricant around the seal.  This helps to work the seal at those pinch points and seals better.  

[DXB]

18 hours ago, takair said:

One other thought.  I also use DC4 lubricant around the seal.  This helps to work the seal at those pinch points and seals better.  

This sounds like a great idea- will try

[DXB]

On June 4, 2016 at 3:10 PM, takair said:

One other thought.  I also use DC4 lubricant around the seal.  This helps to work the seal at those pinch points and seals better.  

Ha! Greasing up one tight spot fixed it. Thanks again!

[cleatus99]

My door popped open this morning in the 201 (single pin), I thought it was me, it wasn't after it opening 3x today even with my door latching experienced co-pilot (wife) I've decided something is a mis. Looks like the door doesn't go over center enough when in position. Open the door it goes solidly over center.

So after tweaking everything it seems more pressure on the bottom link and it will be forceful enough to not vibrate look and spring open.

[M20F-1968]

I have some additional thoughts on the door mechanism and adjusting it.

 

1) I believe all the Mooney doors have a circular mechanism that provides for over center locking.

2) You want to adjust the two horizontal rods inside the door so they start as far away from each other initially (forward aspect) and after locking come very close to each other and nearly touching when locked.

3) Once you get the mechanism adjusted so the outside latch closes and remains parallel to the door, then try to adjust the door so that it closes properly when using the inside latch.

4) Then, for those who have this adjustment, adjust the top mechanism (for me it is the clothes-pin mechanism by adjusting how far the both sticks out) until the outside handle works properly.  (For others with a top hook, there may be another type of top adjustment for the length of the hook).

 

I had some trouble with my door (which was originally adjusted without interior in but not covered with cloth).  As soon as I put the cloth on, the door needed to be readjusted.  It is that tight.  Now both the outside and inside handles when operated have a positive over center feel and the outside handle definitively pops toward the door and remains flush.

 

John Breda