M20D Fixed Gear

[cctsurf]

43 minutes ago, bonal said:

I sometimes wonder if the changes in performance limits are simply due to more extensive flight test in certification with updated numbers and the older models book speeds are never updated even though the equipment is the same

My understanding is that the higher speeds allowed on the later models for Vfe was because there was an upgrade to the structure of the aircraft and to the extension system.  I would be hesitant to say that speeds change solely because of flight testing.  It could happen, but I wouldn't try the other aircraft flight envelope without good reason.

To the earlier question of padlocking the gear handle...or conversion of a D to C...  If you've ever flown in a Piper Arrow vs. an Archer, Cherokee, Warrior, Dakota, etc.  There is very little difference between the cockpits except for the gear apparatus, it is my understanding that they were designed to be similar so that the pilot of one could easily transition to the other.  Therefore, I really don't see the problem with converting a D to a C...  BTW, Beautiful D in the Original Post!

[HRM]

1 hour ago, bonal said:

I sometimes wonder if the changes in performance limits are simply due to more extensive flight test in certification with updated numbers and the older models book speeds are never updated even though the equipment is the same

I heard that the FAA inspector responsible for Vne on the Super 21 was taken to 189, puckered up and set the max speed there.

I have heard of E's flying at 200 and not coming apart 

[Marauder]

43 minutes ago, bonal said: I sometimes wonder if the changes in performance limits are simply due to more extensive flight test in certification with updated numbers and the older models book speeds are never updated even though the equipment is the same

My understanding is that the higher speeds allowed on the later models for Vfe was because there was an upgrade to the structure of the aircraft and to the extension system.  I would be hesitant to say that speeds change solely because of flight testing.  It could happen, but I wouldn't try the other aircraft flight envelope without good reason.

To the earlier question of padlocking the gear handle...or conversion of a D to C...  If you've ever flown in a Piper Arrow vs. an Archer, Cherokee, Warrior, Dakota, etc.  There is very little difference between the cockpits except for the gear apparatus, it is my understanding that they were designed to be similar so that the pilot of one could easily transition to the other.  Therefore, I really don't see the problem with converting a D to a C...  BTW, Beautiful D in the Original Post!

I believe the VFe was increased due to the structural change you mentioned. I remember reading it somewhere.

There was also weight increase with a certain series of J models and I'm not so sure that was nothing more than a paper exercise.

Hopefully a 77 J owner will chime in. Love to know.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[C-GHIJ]

On ‎2016‎-‎01‎-‎27 at 11:22 PM, helitim said:

Got to say, this just messed with my head when I saw this plane.

 

 

The owner just laughed when he saw the puzzled look on my face.  He finally said "yes, it's a fixed gear"

Oh GOD, someone else has the same UGLY paint scheme and colors as mine.......  I thought the previous owner of mine designed it himself.  The designers must have been on acid back in the 60's when they designed it.

[HRM]

1 hour ago, C-GHIJ said:

Oh GOD, someone else has the same UGLY paint scheme and colors as mine.......  I thought the previous owner of mine designed it himself.  The designers must have been on acid back in the 60's when they designed it.

Seriously? I think it looks pretty good, quite 'retro'.

[Raptor05121]

Yes, I also love the scheme. To me, 60s stock paint schemes are very retro and I love them, moreso than new age paint on old airplanes.

[C-GHIJ]

19 minutes ago, HRM said:

Seriously? I think it looks pretty good, quite 'retro'.

I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.......

[HRM]

3 minutes ago, Raptor05121 said:

Yes, I also love the scheme. To me, 60s stock paint schemes are very retro and I love them, moreso than new age paint on old airplanes.

Well, let's not get carried away, I said I liked the scheme on that plane.

As for new age paint on vintage airplanes, some take it well and are quite super...

[Sven]

This happens to be our plane. Folks love her retro paint job and we get compliments on it wherever we go. We've been tempted to modernize it but folks keep telling us to keep it. She was first purchased by an Air Force officer in 1962 and she’s had several owners over the years. Her adventures are unknown until an aircraft mechanic/pilot found her in the desert. The mechanic first met her when her previous owner had flown her to a Mooney shop in Clear Lake, California where he working at the time. The owner inquired what it would take to have her converted to retractible gear. The price was too much so he let her sit dormant from 1975 to 1988. He then decided to fly her to Fallon, Nevada and sell her engine and avionics and let her sit on her tail in the desert until 1991. The mechanic was interested in finding a plane to restore and he remembered that rare fixed-gear Mooney he had seen years earlier and tracked her down. With a new engine and avionics he brought her back to life along with a partner. She flew for a few years but then she sat idle again from 1998 until 2007 on the ramp in spot number 36 in Hayward, California. The salt air and exposure to the elements took their toll on her. She was in rough shape and was just about to be sold for parts when she was rescued, again. This time she was extensively overhauled structurally. She flew for a few more years and then she received a new interior as the original interior began literally crumbling. All is well with her now and she flies like a dream. The mechanic who first rescued her in the desert still does our annuals. She now lives in Hangar 36 in Santa Rosa at KSTS. We frequently show her at the Pacific Coast Air Museum and at the annual Wings Over Wine Country air show where the kids love taking pictures with her. I think it's the sun visor that brings her to life. Santa Rosa is an ATC training tower and we frequently get new tower controllers who remind us to retract our gear. ATC protocol is quickly broken when we inform them we are a fixed gear Mooney. We know she could go much faster but the parts to convert her don't exist. We could probably use parts from a converted D model but we're very happy with the unique bird we have. It seems that whatever airport we stop at someone comes over and asks us if it's an actual fixed gear Mooney.

[bonal]

Nice tail on how she survived 

 

[rbridges]

that is a cool story.  glad the bird could be kept together.  

[ronmacewen]

N1916Y is alive and well in its original fixed gear/fixed pitch prop configuration, and it's for sale...at Aircraft Canada, Calgary

 

[carusoam]

N1916Y Used to be at my home drome in NJ.  Nice panel.

best regards,

-a-

[Cloudskipper]

M20D Fixed gear and fixed prop is for sale for $29,500. I suspect the amount you should save on insurance would be greater than the additional fuel burn.

https://tulsa.craigslist.org/avo/d/chouteau-1964-mooney-m20/7331887889.html

[A64Pilot]

On 1/28/2016 at 3:38 PM, bonal said:

I sometimes wonder if the changes in performance limits are simply due to more extensive flight test in certification with updated numbers and the older models book speeds are never updated even though the equipment is the same

Absolutely it is. I took the S2R-H80 speeds to the point that it’s Vfe was higher than the nearly identical S2R-t34’s VNE. We did tighten up the flight control balance requirements, but the controls are identical.

Took the gross weight from 6,000 lbs to 10,500 lbs too with analysis and some flight testing.

But even then I left some on the table, the aft CG limit is determined by 50 lbs of lead over the tail wheel, we had substantiation etc for 50 lbs but no higher, plus there is no realistic way to load that far aft, so why go through all the extra analysis for a heavier weight to test to, so the aft CG limit, isn’t the actual limit, we don’t know what that is, just that we don’t need to find it.

‘Even with the increased numbers, none were the actual limits, just numbers we determined that gave us all we wanted, testing to the absolute limit can be scary and harder than you might think.

‘But it should be noted that limits are limits. It’s odd to me that the same pilot who would never, ever come close to exceeding 400 cyl head temp. will regularly drop the gear at the max limit every time.

There may be less wear if you wait until much lower speeds.

[A64Pilot]

On 1/28/2016 at 4:49 PM, HRM said:

I heard that the FAA inspector responsible for Vne on the Super 21 was taken to 189, puckered up and set the max speed there.

I have heard of E's flying at 200 and not coming apart 

VD or velocity dive which has to be flown is 1.2 times VNE. On some aircraft VNE is determined by windshield structure,

Edited June 7, 2021 by A64Pilot

[carusoam]

@Cloudskipper  I think you found the missing link!

There are three M20Ds still standing on rigid legs...

Two have been posted around here before...

Looks like you have found #3!

Best regards,

-a-