bonal Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 All of the above and good luck on your oral and check ride. The company I work for has so many acronyms its sickening thank god we aren't required to use them but I always find it amusing when people do, only 2 I choose to remember and use is CIGAR AND GUMPS Quote
Deb Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 There's apparently a big PUSH now for the ADM which incorporated all these fancy little acronyms that we have to learn, memorize and apply to a given situation. These range from "SAFETY" to cover the pre-flight orientation, Seat-belts, Air Vents, Fire Extinguisher, ELT, Traffic, Your Questions, and then goes on to the 3P's Perceive,(broken down with subcategory PAVE -Pilot, Aircraft, enVironment, External Factors) Process (broken down to CARE, Consequences, Alternatives, Reality, External Pressures) Perform to form a situational tool model which will determine if you should take a flight today based upon using each of these tools incorporated into any circumstances that might exist. Followed by the IMSAFE, Illness, Medication, Stress, Alcohol, Fatigue, Emotion/Eating.. From what I hear they can ask any and all of this and have you apply each and every one of them in a systematic step by step evaluation of ...{EXAMPLE} So your friend wants you to fly him, his 98 lb g'friend to the Adult Video Awards in Vegas where she has her best friend, she is showing you some real nice photos of right now, is waiting to meet you in person. The plane is a 152, the distance is 375 miles over mountainous terrain, the ceiling at takeoff is 3,000' scattered class G and the weather at LAS is projected to be 1,800' mist. It's 5pm on a Friday What do you do? Use PAVE, 3P, DECIDE and CARE to explain the situation. First.. IMSAFE.. Your not sick, you haven't taken any medications but your head hurts after a day at work. Your not stressed you are tired and you haven't eaten yet as your leaving work now. 3P.... Perceive, the ceiling and weight limitations of the 152, PAVE. Pilot is good to go. The Plane is going to take forever but it's slow and going to be heavy. Possibly needs a fuel stop. enVirnment, very tall mountains from NorCal to Vegas, going to have to find a route around most of these someway, External Pressure, meeting a nice Stripper/***** in Vegas is real pressure! Process, CARE Consequences of taking this flight, fuel starvation, exhaustion, CFIT, Night Currency, Alternatives, SouthWest Airlines, Reality it's not that smart to do this mission in this plane, External Pressure, your friend wants to impress his new G'friend as she's promising to do a lot fun things tonight Perform, Execute a plan, fuel, plan, eat (QUICKLY) and fly or DECIDE Detect the problem. I'm going to arrive so late that this hot chick is going to be drunk and already hooked up with someone else. The plane is to small, to slow, the weather is marginal at arrival, the plane is not IFR, I'm not IFR Estimate: To little speed, to little fuel, to little time Choose. Different plane, have I been check'd out in this Cessna 182 or the Cardinal? Leave at a different time? Identify, The plane is not up to the task and the weather would require a MVFR landing and I'm not rated for that Do Something: Buy tickets on SouthWest Evaluate: Arrive on time to meet Tiffany Lee before she's to drunk or taken This is what only one part of the Oral has come down to it appears... And you didn't even get to the I, D, and E! You seem to have nailed it. It's all common sense; be conservative. Quote
mooniac15u Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Just learned the DE failed a student because the student did not know PAVE. WOW.. I suspect there's more to the story than what you have been told. Quote
Rik Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Posted August 20, 2015 I suspect there's more to the story than what you have been told. ?? You hear so many horror stories and you don't know what to believe, but when there's so many stories of a DE being an ass it starts to make you believe it if you want to or not. My CFI told me this after speaking with another CFI about him... Seems like a credible source to me. Quote
ryoder Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 We use a lot of TLAs at work. Three letter acronyms. Quote
mooniac15u Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 We use a lot of TLAs at work. Three letter acronyms. The irony there is that TLA is not an acronym, it's an initialism. To be an acronym it must be a pronounceable word. Quote
N33GG Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 I have been around many, many DE's, (CFII/MEI ATP with many check rides myself and my many students) and fortunately none of them have been jerks. All failures I have seen have been very much earned. The PTS allows wiggle room in some cases, and in other areas, not much if any wiggle room is allowed. It is a good idea to review the PTS before the check ride, and know where the wiggle room is provided. I am sure there are some out there that at very least have bad days, as do we all. And there may be some full time jerks lurking in the DE ranks, but I haven't met one. Your first job is to pass the attitude test. Then everything else gets a lot easier. Good luck, and may good attitude be with you! FWIW YMMV etc. Quote
mooniac15u Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 ?? You hear so many horror stories and you don't know what to believe, but when there's so many stories of a DE being an ass it starts to make you believe it if you want to or not. My CFI told me this after speaking with another CFI about him... Seems like a credible source to me. Third hand from someone who is mad about not passing might not be entirely credible. Ever heard someone gripe about a teacher or professor who failed them over some little detail? There are usually much bigger issues (didn't attend class or didn't turn in homework) and the person who failed rationalizes the outcome by blaming the professor rather than admitting their own shortcomings. It seems more likely that this pilot failed because of a general disregard for risk analysis or some other combination of issues. Or, the DPE could be a jerk but your time is better spent on general prep rather than worrying about some possibly bogus story. Demonstrate a good attitude toward risk assessment and you should be ok. Quote
carusoam Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Summary... (1) knowing the PTS... (2) knowing the acronyms and initialisms... (3) knowing how to prep the plane... (4) knowing how to prep the pilot for the XC, emergencies, engine out, lost procedures... (5) know how to answer when you don't know the exact answer, what you would look up, where you would look it up, then look it up... (6) know how to fly the plane. Know the Vspeeds. Hit the numbers. (7) don't get rattled. Even if you goof something up, there are still another dozen things you want to finish properly. Retaking the test can be as minimal as re-doing what is needed to get to the botched part, execute that properly this time, get home safely. (8) stay ahead of the plane... (9) I use the technique called verbal mediation. Talking out loud. Saying what I do before actually doing it. Even if I am not an excellent pilot the DE knows what I am intending to do and what my thought process is before I am doing it. (10) use checklists, or flow. Not to do lists... (11) take care of all the eating and peeing in advance... (12) Rik, thanks for filling in the memory mnemonics. (13) wear a shirt that is memorable, but not too expensive...! I had difficulty maintaining altitude in steep turns using a C152. The DE demonstrated a few things regarding trim and power setting like I had never seen before. Steep turns, fully trimmed, hands off, no altitude change... and a few other things that were amazing for an old beater C152. Come back with success stories, even if it takes another day... Best regards, -a- Quote
Rik Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Posted August 20, 2015 That's what I think also, just a horror story throws a wrench into it. I know the other CFI was not impressed with him so? Just want a fair shake at it. Nothing but fair. If someone didn't know what PAVE was and didn't have the common sense to look it up then.... I've made a cheat sheet as according to the FAA it's an open book test. Quote
Deb Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Rik, Based on what you've written, you already seem organized and well prepared. N6719N has given you good advice about attitude. It's usually pretty apparent who's prepared and who isn't early on. Project confidence, particularly with answers you know (ie V speeds). A question you don't know (where's the nearest VOT?) – I'm not sure; let me check in the A/FD. It's normal to be anxious and to worry, but given your level of preparation, it will probably be anticlimactic. Best of good luck! 1 Quote
mike_elliott Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Summary... (1) knowing the PTS... (2) knowing the acronyms and initialisms... (3) knowing how to prep the plane... (4) knowing how to prep the pilot for the XC, emergencies, engine out, lost procedures... (5) know how to answer when you don't know the exact answer, what you would look up, where you would look it up, then look it up... (6) know how to fly the plane. Know the Vspeeds. Hit the numbers. (7) don't get rattled. Even if you goof something up, there are still another dozen things you want to finish properly. Retaking the test can be as minimal as re-doing what is needed to get to the botched part, execute that properly this time, get home safely. (8) stay ahead of the plane... (9) I use the technique called verbal mediation. Talking out loud. Saying what I do before actually doing it. Even if I am not an excellent pilot the DE knows what I am intending to do and what my thought process is before I am doing it. (10) use checklists, or flow. Not to do lists... (11) take care of all the eating and peeing in advance... (12) Rik, thanks for filling in the memory mnemonics. (13) wear a shirt that is memorable, but not too expensive...! I had difficulty maintaining altitude in steep turns using a C152. The DE demonstrated a few things regarding trim and power setting like I had never seen before. Steep turns, fully trimmed, hands off, no altitude change... and a few other things that were amazing for an old beater C152. Come back with success stories, even if it takes another day... Best regards, -a- You forgot, pay cash at the start of the exam 1 Quote
Rik Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Posted August 20, 2015 Summary... (1) knowing the PTS... (2) knowing the acronyms and initialisms... (3) knowing how to prep the plane... (4) knowing how to prep the pilot for the XC, emergencies, engine out, lost procedures... (5) know how to answer when you don't know the exact answer, what you would look up, where you would look it up, then look it up... (6) know how to fly the plane. Know the Vspeeds. Hit the numbers. (7) don't get rattled. Even if you goof something up, there are still another dozen things you want to finish properly. Retaking the test can be as minimal as re-doing what is needed to get to the botched part, execute that properly this time, get home safely. (8) stay ahead of the plane... (9) I use the technique called verbal mediation. Talking out loud. Saying what I do before actually doing it. Even if I am not an excellent pilot the DE knows what I am intending to do and what my thought process is before I am doing it. (10) use checklists, or flow. Not to do lists... (11) take care of all the eating and peeing in advance... (12) Rik, thanks for filling in the memory mnemonics. (13) wear a shirt that is memorable, but not too expensive...! I had difficulty maintaining altitude in steep turns using a C152. The DE demonstrated a few things regarding trim and power setting like I had never seen before. Steep turns, fully trimmed, hands off, no altitude change... and a few other things that were amazing for an old beater C152. Come back with success stories, even if it takes another day... Best regards, -a- Thanks! The more perspective the better!! Quote
ryoder Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Don't try to bribe the DPE like an international student did at my school. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote
Yetti Posted August 21, 2015 Report Posted August 21, 2015 It's next week. Why have you not passed yet? Quote
Rik Posted August 21, 2015 Author Report Posted August 21, 2015 It's next week. Why have you not passed yet? It would not be flying if there's not a story to go with it. I flew last week and during pre-flight the AROW show'd that the registration was expiring that day of my flight... It's a brand new plane so the FAA has not sent the owner the registration as the owner had purchased it under his name but wanted it registered in name X and the FAA didn't like this but hey issued a temporary registration for 60 days. Well last week was 60 days and no new registration. Owner claims he is waiting on the FAA?? SO.. plane cannot fly without this and the DE was advised prior about this BUT I'm kinda stuck in limbo waiting for the registration. Why am I not just using another plane? Simple.. I've trained and prepp'd for this plane and for me to change would require, as per the flight school's rules a checkout in a different plane which will require 4-6hrs of work and at $235/hr makes me spend another who knows how much more $$ and then I'm liable to know everything that's in the new to me plane on the checkride.. I've spent enough $$ and have prepared for one plane and unless I 100% have to I'm not going to spend and go into the DE checkride unprepared.. Was supposed to have had the ride last Wed... But gives me more time to read the POH or the PTS or learn a new acronym.. Hopefully this is harder than the actual checkride! Quote
N33GG Posted August 21, 2015 Report Posted August 21, 2015 Plan on everything going wrong, and you will rarely be disappointed. Sounds like you are doing great to me. Keep the positive vibes going! Quote
Yetti Posted August 21, 2015 Report Posted August 21, 2015 I would say get the Oral part out of the way. Then you can fly when the plane is ready 1 Quote
bonal Posted August 21, 2015 Report Posted August 21, 2015 I would say get the Oral part out of the way. Then you can fly when the plane is ready Agreed that would be good idea also allows you to split the tasks for better focus. A friend had to wait months for the weather to allow his CK ride at STS he ended up getting his done a day before me even though we started almost a year apart, You will do fine and like many have said its just a license to learn Quote
carusoam Posted August 21, 2015 Report Posted August 21, 2015 Yep, the $5 document... Usual timing for that is a couple of weeks? Time to chase down where it went to or get it replaced with the FAA. You can probably start online at the FAA website. Another one of life's lessons.... Best regards, -a- Quote
Rik Posted August 21, 2015 Author Report Posted August 21, 2015 I would say get the Oral part out of the way. Then you can fly when the plane is ready Can't. The plane must be ready to fly before you can take any portion of the test. I tried this as well. I was told that the plane plays a role in the oral so it must be ready as when the DE ask, "prove to me that this plane is safe and legal to fly" I wouldn't be able to do that. Quote
whiskytango Posted August 23, 2015 Report Posted August 23, 2015 On my PPL check ride the DPE had me flying under the hood to show I could track a VOR radial inbound. I did not have the use of a sectional chart. He told me to take the hood off, and as I did he "failed" the engine. "Where are you going to land?" I went through the engine-out checklist and picked out a field. He told me he was sure that I could make a safe landing on that field, but there was an airport directly below us when he "failed" the engine!! It was a good lesson in carefully making your choice of an off-airport landing site. (Years later I would put this lesson to good use when my K model engine died.) In spite of this goof on my part, the DPE passed me. He treated the check ride as a learning opportunity, as well as a test. This is the way it should be. Quote
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