Thoughts on purchase of M20C?

[carusoam]

Know the costs to fix those things...

Check with Ryan for tank reseal costs in Florida...

Hangar rash can be problematic and expensive.

A fully run-out C sold for 18AMU... Needed paint, tank reseal and engine Oh. Had no modern radios.

The problem with buying a C for 18AMU, there is a lot of work to be done.

The prop looks nice in the photos.

A full PPI is going to be important. Knowing what is broken and the cost to fix them is more important than beating the old guy down on the price.

Is the owner also a mechanic? The whiteboard maintenance log is typical of my car mechanic friend from high school. Only we didn't have whiteboards back then...

Best regards,

-a-

[MB65E]

I'd look for corrosion under the rear seat spar, spar caps near the retract springs, seams of all skin joint and the condition of the steel tubes. If there is no corrosion, all the other gripes are superficial.

I didn't see anything that was scary at all in the pictures alone.

-Matt

[Hank]

Strange . . . That Whelen flasher on the roof is just like the one I had on my belly, until it quit. Now it's LED, with the same trim ring. Why put it on top???

[carusoam]

My C's rotating beacon was on top.

Empty hole on the bottom.

Best regards,

-a-

[RobertGary1]

Don't forget to factor in sales tax and property tax. As an example when you buy a plane and return it to California you pay approx 10% of the sale price in tax. Probably similar in most states.

[Raptor05121]

Nice pointers, guys. My dad used to fly an -F back in the day. He hasn't flown since 2003, but last night we spent the better parts of 4 hours talking about it, and I think its piqued his interest to renew his medical and get back into flying, which is great on my part if we go half and half on it. It should also keep the insurance cost down versus just my name on it.

We're going to check it out again come Monday if it the other interested party does not purchase it. Might put a deposit on it and go to pre-buy from there.

[MyNameIsNobody]

Nice pointers, guys. My dad used to fly an -F back in the day. He hasn't flown since 2003, but last night we spent the better parts of 4 hours talking about it, and I think its piqued his interest to renew his medical and get back into flying, which is great on my part if we go half and half on it. It should also keep the insurance cost down versus just my name on it.

We're going to check it out again come Monday if it the other interested party does not purchase it. Might put a deposit on it and go to pre-buy from there.

Now I know what Jimmy was talking about: "Come Monday, It will be alright. Come Monday, I'll be holding you tight...

[Shadrach]

I think buying a plane is less risky than getting married. Planes don't come with inlaws!!!  It took me 39 years to find the right person.  I got lucky, but it took some time!!!

[Raptor05121]

What was done in lower end at prop strike? How are you going to afford doing an engine in another couple hundred hours? Or how long do you think you will or will be able to run it?

 

Don't quote me on this, but I believe he said crankshaft was re-done and a few other things. The mechanic I took with me personally knew the guy at Zephyrhills Engines who did the tear-down inspection. Along with the new jugs, I don't see why this plane wouldn't easily go another 500 hours. Thats about 2-3 years of flying for me. 600 hours on a lower end seems attractive. The jugs have even less time.

[ryoder]

Buying a plane is like passing Obamacare, you gotta pass the bill to see what is in it. (Nancy Pelosi)

[Shadrach]

Don't quote me on this, but I believe he said crankshaft was re-done and a few other things. The mechanic I took with me personally knew the guy at Zephyrhills Engines who did the tear-down inspection. Along with the new jugs, I don't see why this plane wouldn't easily go another 500 hours. Thats about 2-3 years of flying for me. 600 hours on a lower end seems attractive. The jugs have even less time.

If was returned to service by Zephyr, that would add a bit to my comfort level. Charlie Melot has a very solid reputation in the industry.

[Raptor05121]

If was returned to service by Zephyr, that would add a bit to my comfort level. Charlie Melot has a very solid reputation in the industry.

Yes, agreed. Everything I have read on here about them make me perk up when he said that. And they're local enough that it would be the place I would most likely return for any engine work.

[ryoder]

Zephyr is not cheap. But highly respected.

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[Raptor05121]

Today I took my old man out to go look at it and we chatted some more with the owner. As of right now, we are in the beginning stages of talking about flying her home (40 miles) and get a PPI done. We are treading very carefully, but if nothing major comes up, this may be our new bird. I'll update when I have more info.

[ryoder]

When you do the PPI, be sure to not break anything. My IA has told me many stories of inspections that resulted in damage.

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[Raptor05121]

Just got off the phone with my mechanic. We are heading out there on saturday to go over it with a fine tooth comb. Gear swing, open belly pan, pull out some interior, inspection panels and then crack open the books to cross check against ADs. He also said he wants to cut open the oil filter and send off an oil analysis. Least I need to say, this is all very exciting. I hope the plane isnt hiding anything.

[Hank]

Congrats on the big step forward! Hope everything works out well, including price negotiating.

[Raptor05121]

I am open to suggestions on this part-

The owner refuses to fly the aircraft 35 miles to my and my mechanics home field citing the lack of insurance. Of course I'm sure part of it has to be he wants to be kept in the loop during the pre-buy. So Saturday the mechanic and I are loading up my truck and heading over there to do the prebuy in his hangar. Herein lies the question- should we be discussing pricing of work during the prebuy (Oh this needs to be done, that'll be $500, etc) in front of the owner or should I try to keep the mechanic quiet until we leave?

[ryoder]

If you had your mechanic in my hangar looking around going "aha!" There is another 1000 off the purchase price I'd probably ask you to leave after a while. I would have him do the work and prepare an overall assessment. He should focus on deal breakers first. Of course I have never done a prebuy so my opinion is probably not worth much. I bought mine without one but interviewed the owner of the shop who did the annual a day before I bought it. It was only a 20k purchase and the plane was hangared up north most of its life so I took a chance and just moved forward with what I thought was an incredible value. So far I haven't found anything I didn't know about when I bought it other than the leaky tanks. I assume they all leak though and it's a 2k fix.

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[Marauder]

I am open to suggestions on this part-

The owner refuses to fly the aircraft 35 miles to my and my mechanics home field citing the lack of insurance. Of course I'm sure part of it has to be he wants to be kept in the loop during the pre-buy. So Saturday the mechanic and I are loading up my truck and heading over there to do the prebuy in his hangar. Herein lies the question- should we be discussing pricing of work during the prebuy (Oh this needs to be done, that'll be $500, etc) in front of the owner or should I try to keep the mechanic quiet until we leave?

For a lot of owners the PPI is a painful process. "How can there be that many things wrong with my baby?"

If you were doing a PPI on my plane, I wouldn't want a blow by blow of everything found. If something major is found, I think the owner should be told at that point. Why continue if something major is found that either will cause you to walk or the owner to realize it will be a major adjustment of the price to continue?

I am sure there are owners who are naive to their plane's actual condition and others who know perfectly well.

At the end of the day, you and your mechanic will find a list of discrepancies that you and the owner need to agree on how to handle.

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[Raptor05121]

Marauder, thanks for the tips.

Ryan, thanks. It sounds like you and I were/are in kinda the same boat. How old is that $2k quote to reseal tanks? I sent that company an e-mail but haven't heard back.

Purchase or not, this thread and community has been an immense load off of my shoulders and imparted knowledge. I have my fingers crossed that I will finally be baptized as a Mooniac by the end of the month.

[ryoder]

They suck at email over there. Call and ask for Jeff directly. The owner. You can reference me. I had them done 6 months ago.

[MB65E]

I would go over there with your tech, help him if he needs help with the jacks and such. It sounds like he's a responsible guy since he wants to drag his jacks up there. I'd also keep the owner out of the guys hair, go grab a coffee with the owner and let the guy work, and don't be to buddy buddy with the owner. From experience, having an owner and future owner looking over my shoulder, while both are emotionally evolved, is not the best working environment to preform the inspection. I don't mind it, but it really slows things down if the owner is chatty. Have fun, but be 100% prepared to tell the owner "have a nice day" and walk.

-Matt

[carusoam]

Oops...

[Raptor05121]

Ryan, thanks. We will be bringing some 100LL fuel saturday and watch for seepage. If anything comes up, those guys are at the top of my list

Matt, that's the plan. I went and saw the mechanic today (he was pulling apart an O-360 from an experimental, so he called me in to see the insides of a 360) and he said he wants me to help with the pre-buy to A.) to learn about the innards of the aircraft should I purchase and also said getting some gear-swinging practice.

I also sent off several insurnance quotes. As expected, Avemco is rediculous at $2,700/yr. AOPA $2,000/yr. I called a broker out of Orlando and for 1m liability/35k hull, they're at $1500/yr. He said by next year with more than 200hours in type, it would be closer to a grand.

Hangar is $162/mo for water, electric, lights, and fire extinguisher with manual slide doors and we have one left. I have paperwork in hand and ready to submit if we proceed.