M20J for me?

[Steve W]

So, I'm finally tired of rentals and all that entails and am looking for a new job where I might have to travel, and as such may be able to fly myself sometimes.

 

So, as part of that I've been toying with the idea of a Mooney. I have a few hours in the M20J so I'm ok with the fit. Right now I don't have a good mission profile, most stuff I currently do is in a Rental 182RG so I figure a better fuel burn and not buying into the Cessna gear system puts me in Mooney land. I'm looking at under $90k US, under mid-time engine with a 2 axis autopilot and a WAAS GPS.

 

The thing I keep seeing is the M20Ks at roughly the same prices, a little more engine time and a little less well equipped usually, and while I'd love a turbo, I don't think that's a good first purchase. I'm thinking M20J now, and if it works well and I manage to use it for work I can move up to something with a turbo and known ice later(Western US). And if it doesn't work well, they seem to hold their value decently.

 

Other suggestions? Ideas? Stuff on the market?

 

[Raptor05121]

 

The thing I keep seeing is the M20Ks at roughly the same prices, a little more engine time and a little less well equipped usually, and while I'd love a turbo, I don't think that's a good first purchase. I'm thinking M20J now, and if it works well and I manage to use it for work I can move up to something with a turbo and known ice later(Western US). And if it doesn't work well, they seem to hold their value decently.

 

I'm not a Mooney owner, but that sounds like a good move. $90K should get you a decent airplane. The general consensus I am reading is buy a plane with the stuff you want and has been flown often. A very thorough pre-buy is a MUST. But you should first sit down and outline what type of flying you do 51% of the time (personally I'd buy a plane which fits 75% or more of my mission). I'll let the Mooney owners take over now.

[carusoam]

Alex is going to make a good Mooney buyer one day...

If you like traveling distances at high speeds and are willing to use O2 to do so...go K, Bravo, TN...

If 12,500’ and no O2 is more important...go J, R, S...

Getting to know what you prefer is the hard part.

My family started with a C just because we didn't know what it was like to fly...

Best regards,

-a-

[Randy_B]

Steve,
I think you are in the "ball park" with what you are expecting to get for the money. Now you are down to considering your mission.  About a year ago, I half-heartedly posted my "J" for sale. I didn't really pursue selling it.  At annual this year all of the acrylics and 90% of the interior plastics were replaced.  I may still consider selling it.

What part of the West are you located in?  My mission took me from Boise to Seattle and Boise to Reno. The J model has worked well. 

Thanks,

Randy
 

 

[KSMooniac]

You're on the right path.  You won't regret buying a J, even if you feel like you'll outgrow it eventually.  You might it will suit you just fine, and save the hard winter travel for the airlines when needed.  90K should buy you a great plane these days.  

 

For particulars about the search/buying process, just search here as it has been covered in heavy detail over the years.

[Steve W]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm still working on nailing down a 'mission profile'. I'm currently in San Diego. But assuming I change jobs as expected by the end of the year my goal will be move to Western OR or WA for about 50% travel and 50% work from home. So, sometimes I'll be flying(or driving) to a big airport for an airline flight and other times I'll be flying myself to Western US locations time and weather permiting. And still other times I'll be shoving a portable office in the plane to go camp and work somewhere. I don't expect a Turbo would improve my dispatch rates or significantly impact the trip lengths I plan to fly in the short term so I'm thinking I'll leave that out for now.

[Bob - S50]

Will your flights take you mostly north/south or east/west?  If you plan to fly north/south between say Eugene, OR and Bellingham, WA, you will be able to fly most of the year.  If you plan to fly east/west over the Cascades, icing will keep you grounded a good portion of the winter (November - March or April).  There will still be a few opportunities to cross the mountains, but a lot fewer than in the summer.

 

I've got a J at Auburn, WA and it works fine for me.

 

Unless you plan on getting a plane with 'known ice', keeping your IFR currency up, and don't mind sucking O2; a K won't do you much good up here in the winter.  If you are fine with all that, the K will let you get a little higher, better winds eastbound (worse westbound), and maybe a better ride.

 

Personally, I'd rather get a well equipped J than a K with less capable avionics.  The K will also have higher maintenance costs (turbo Continental rather than NA Lycoming).

 

Bob

[Steve W]

So, I'm finally getting near an actual mission profile. It's pretty much Western US, coastal Oregon down to Los Angeles initially and with trips to Portland when I need to take the bus further than that. I'm leaning towards a 231... I'd still love a Known Ice 252 or something, but that's going to be out of budget for a while. Right now my problem is that I don't dare start really looking until I have a date when I'll be out of California to avoid them trying to charge me sales/use tax.

 

It's a little odd, but I'm seeing well equipped(well, in my opinion) 231s with less than mid time engines for at or under 110k. So I have to start wondering what's wrong with them, higher fuel burn, higher maintenance when needed but still look to be a pretty good deal. All American has one, and there are a few others.

[carusoam]

Higher knowledge, higher experience and a higher level of effort to maintain currency...

Could be extra rewarding to go with all the extra effort and expense.

Best regards,

-a-

[peevee]

So, I'm finally getting near an actual mission profile. It's pretty much Western US, coastal Oregon down to Los Angeles initially and with trips to Portland when I need to take the bus further than that. I'm leaning towards a 231... I'd still love a Known Ice 252 or something, but that's going to be out of budget for a while. Right now my problem is that I don't dare start really looking until I have a date when I'll be out of California to avoid them trying to charge me sales/use tax.

 

It's a little odd, but I'm seeing well equipped(well, in my opinion) 231s with less than mid time engines for at or under 110k. So I have to start wondering what's wrong with them, higher fuel burn, higher maintenance when needed but still look to be a pretty good deal. All American has one, and there are a few others.

I love our 231.

Living in the pac nw I would think at least a TKS would be on my short list.

[Steve W]

Higher knowledge, higher experience and a higher level of effort to maintain currency...

 

 

Thanks, that's a good point, I sometimes forget that turbos can be a concern with the need for Oxygen and the additional care/engine management/planning needed. All my Turbo time so far is Cessna T182, T206 and now a couple hours in an SR-22 turbo which all are significantly newer systems with built-in turbo management and nice engine monitors and all that data.

[KSMooniac]

Taking the Advanced Pilot Seminar course and installing a modern engine monitor (if not already equipped) would pay massive dividends when operating any piston engine plane, and especially a turbo.

[Steve W]

So, now that I'm finally close to being able to buy something. It looks like there are several M20K 231s in my price range right now, both on Trade-a-plane and one here in the forums. ($80k-105k) I was wondering if anyone had any comments on any of them(looks like: N43WT, N1172W and N99376) although the last one still has the GB engine which worries me a bit. Ideally I'd love to find something with Known Ice, but short of a twin I think that's out of my purchase budget, and the twin is out of my operating cost budget.

[PTK]

So, now that I'm finally close to being able to buy something. It looks like there are several M20K 231s in my price range right now, both on Trade-a-plane and one here in the forums. ($80k-105k) I was wondering if anyone had any comments on any of them(looks like: N43WT, N1172W and N99376) although the last one still has the GB engine which worries me a bit. Ideally I'd love to find something with Known Ice, but short of a twin I think that's out of my purchase budget, and the twin is out of my operating cost budget.

http://www.mooneyland.com/why-mooney/

[M20F]

So, now that I'm finally close to being able to buy something. It looks like there are several M20K 231s in my price range right now, both on Trade-a-plane and one here in the forums. ($80k-105k) I was wondering if anyone had any comments on any of them(looks like: N43WT, N1172W and N99376) although the last one still has the GB engine which worries me a bit. Ideally I'd love to find something with Known Ice, but short of a twin I think that's out of my purchase budget, and the twin is out of my operating cost budget.

A 231 is going to be a lot more in maintenance in general and if you need to overhaul figure double what doing a J motor would cost.  Turbo's are great but they really only fit a very specific mission and if that isn't your mission you are going to end up paying a lot for unrealized potential.   

[Piloto]

I have a 1982 M20J and love it. The first engine made it to 2000hrs with the original cylinders doing over 75/80. 700hrs since overhaul and the lowest compression reading is 79/80. The M20J is very reliable and good performer. It cruise 160kts at 10,000ft. My friend has an Aerostar 601P but mine overall is faster because his is at the shop half the time. What good is an airplane that cannot fly.

José

[romair]

I would be careful with what you are buying .100k gets you an airplane, but not necessarily one without problems. If you are looking at a mid-time engine then you are taking a gamble with that engine. Doing a quick flightaware search on the airplanes that you mentioned shows that 2 of them have not had any flights in a long time, and one of them had a couple of flights this month, nothing before. Sure, they might be flying VFR without flight following, but usually Mooneys are longer trip airplanes and most pilots would at least get flight following. My take is either find a airplane with a run out engine and plan on flying it a bit longer until you need to do the overhaul, or one that is flown very regularly (once a week, maybe once every couple of weeks). Long trips followed by longer periods of inactivity, or months where the airplane is flown more followed by months where the airplane sits are serious gambles. Just be careful, and be willing to spend a bit more upfront for a well maintained airplane than having some nasty surprises on the back-end.

[ArtVandelay]

I have a 1982 M20J and love it. The first engine made it to 2000hrs with the original cylinders doing over 75/80. 700hrs since overhaul and the lowest compression reading is 79/80. The M20J is very reliable and good performer. It cruise 160kts at 10,000ft. My friend has an Aerostar 601P but mine overall is faster because his is at the shop half the time. What good is an airplane that cannot fly.

José

Why did you do the overall then? Just because of TBO? Who did your overall?

[Piloto]

Why did you do the overall then? Just because of TBO? Who did your overall?

Economics were good and I was in good health. Nothing wrong with the engine. I had the overhaul done by Airmark at KFXE http://www.airmarkoverhaul.com/. This was my second overhaul with them. The first one for an M20C also held up to 80/80 on all cylinders when I sold it. I always request new Lycoming cylinder kits. Many at KFXE praise them for their good job. They even pick up my engine directly from the engine mount and back. Strongly recommend them.

José

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

So, now that I'm finally close to being able to buy something. It looks like there are several M20K 231s in my price range right now, both on Trade-a-plane and one here in the forums. ($80k-105k) I was wondering if anyone had any comments on any of them(looks like: N43WT, N1172W and N99376) although the last one still has the GB engine which worries me a bit. Ideally I'd love to find something with Known Ice, but short of a twin I think that's out of my purchase budget, and the twin is out of my operating cost budget.

I don't know anything about this plane other than what's in the advertisement, but I would probably consider it over any 231.  A little negotiation on price could get you where you need to be.  With the understanding that the engine is getting to be higher time and that could potentially cost you more.

 

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20K-252TSE/1986-MOONEY-M20K-252TSE/1360227.htm

 

[Jrob]

Steve,

I was in your same position 2 years ago.  I am a low lander (Lubbock, TX) and frequently fly west into Colorado, Wyoming and Montana.  I desperately wanted a 252 withTKS but the $150,000 price tag AND my low time as a pilot steered me away. I purchased a '81 231 with a high time engine (1400 SMOH) at a good price because of the fear that 10 seconds of mishandling the engine would make it explode.  The overhaul was built into my budget for the next couple of years and it will definitely be more than a Lycoming 360. 

I have 200 hours in the plane and couldn't be happier.  I have two annuals behind me and the 231 is slightly more to maintain but not as bad as many people try to scare with.  It is also more forgiving than you may think. I will not explode if you take off at 38.1" of MP and I think it is easier to land than a J maybe because of the heavier nose.  I would echo some of the others that if getting high to avoid rocks and getting there quickly is important, then a 231 would be a good plane for you.  I routinely take off 100 under gross in the summer mornings with DA around 8500 and do not have to circle to clear the mountains around the airport.  As far as TKS, it was on my original wish list but I'm not sure that it wouldn't have led me to push into a bad situation.  If I am flying on a tight schedule especially in winter, I book a refundable airline ticket.  I have had to use that ticket twice and it sucked but I was alive to explain it to my wife.  Finally, the oxygen thing.  If you hate flying that high, then a 231 is kinda a waste.  I often fly east at 13,500 for better winds and jewels is only marginally faster than a J.  Flying west at 20,000 I have seen GS over 220.

Either way, they are great planes.  Don't get pushed away from a 231 IF it meets your needs. 

[thinwing]

I love our 231.

Living in the pac nw I would think at least a TKS would be on my short list.

I know I am biased ,but flying out of western or/wa even in summer you will want turbo/tks to provide any kind of mission reliabilty..The meas crossing west to east or south of medford are simply to high ....I think that leaves ifr use only thru a coastal stratus/fog for the J.VFR business use was simply to stressful with all the second guessing of the weather..at least for me...Constant questions regarding could I breakout between layers before hitting icing temps usually had me scrubbing the flight.IT was only after flying business trips with a Turbo/fiki equipped Mooney out west that I realized what proper equipment could mean.

[thinwing]

Will your flights take you mostly north/south or east/west?  If you plan to fly north/south between say Eugene, OR and Bellingham, WA, you will be able to fly most of the year.  If you plan to fly east/west over the Cascades, icing will keep you grounded a good portion of the winter (November - March or April).  There will still be a few opportunities to cross the mountains, but a lot fewer than in the summer.

 

I've got a J at Auburn, WA and it works fine for me.

 

Unless you plan on getting a plane with 'known ice', keeping your IFR currency up, and don't mind sucking O2; a K won't do you much good up here in the winter.  If you are fine with all that, the K will let you get a little higher, better winds eastbound (worse westbound), and maybe a better ride.

 

Personally, I'd rather get a well equipped J than a K with less capable avionics.  The K will also have higher maintenance costs (turbo Continental rather than NA Lycoming).

 

Bob

That reminds me...my last icing encounter (two gal tks)was in July IFR port angeles wa to sacramento ca..center wanted us a 9k passing through a green/yellow cell just over olympia wash.I was tired cause it had been IFR low approaches with holds all week prior on a fishing trip to Ketchikan ak and the queen charlottes.I was distracted with a reroute and was late getting the tks on..and once in the cell it was 3/4 in rime in no time.The Tks handled it fine...but without the icing and ability to quickly climb on top..I would not be a happy fisherman

[Steve W]

While I'd love to go known ice, short of a bunch of old freight 210s out there, the cheapest looks like 180k+ for a single. So, I think this go around I'm going to go for just turbo. Some days I can fly to the customer site, some days I can fly to Portland or Eugene for a commercial flight, and some days I can drive. Of course, now the trick is to find a plane. Then in a few years replace it with something better suited to year round flying, or not, depending on how the dispatch rate actually works out.

[DonMuncy]

Steve,

.  I am a low lander (Lubbock, TX) and frequently fly west into Colorado, Wyoming and Montana.

Is that said tongue-in-cheek. Lubbock is almost 4000 ft.