Sfcrusscanter Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 I'm looking at a 1959 M20A that is now a two time estate sale. The last ower had also bought it at an estate sale, had it ferried up here, replaced the wooden tail and annualed. It was flown once after that, then his health went down hill too. The annual expired in 2011 and hasn't moved since then. His sons are still looking for the log books. I have my A&P and do most of the work for my own annuals with my IA keeping track of me. Most of my maintenance has been on military aircraft, and my Tripacer. My question is about the about landing gear bungees. How often should they be changed out? I'm looking for service manuals and researching the M20A. Hoping to make it into a XC bird for the wife and me. I have time in F33A's, BE-58's and a Super Viking. I almost bought the Viking... But now I'm thinking the M20A will do what I need for a good while.
DaV8or Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 There are not a lot of folks on here with wood winged Mooneys, but there are some. There is even a guy from Germany that has a an M20 with the original wooden tail still on. I hope he finds his way to this thread. My understanding is, the Mooney factory doesn't support the wooden Mooneys much anymore and neither do the MSCs much, but I think if you put some calls out there you will find those that really know their stuff and point you in the right direction for service instructions and where to look for headaches. Places to start calling on the phone would be- LASAR Don Maxwell Aviation Dugosh The Mooney Aircraft Company Cole Aviation Southwest Texas Aviation Willmar Air Service Freeway Aviation None of these organizations do much work on wood wings, but they can steer you the right way I'm sure. It's a relatively small community. Also contact these- MAPA Mooney Ambassadors Vintage Mooney Group They can put you in touch with members that actually own wood wing Mooneys. The only wood winged M20 I ever laid eyes on was a guy that owned an M20A in the Vintage Mooney Group I met at one of their fly ins. Hope this helps a little. Please report back if you buy. We all know loads about the aluminum Mooneys, the wood ones are more exotic and more interesting too me anyways as a topic of discussion. I would love to know more about their quirks as well as their positive features.
M204ever Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 Try this https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MooneyWoodWings/info
Hank Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 Try to catch up with Dave Morris on the MAPA lists. He flies an A model and loves it. N1960A is his tail number, I believe. He has lots of videos on YouTube also.
Bob_Belville Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 Larry Star had his beautiful '60A at our fly in last month. N6099X based @ KVUJ. I don't know if he is active on MooneySpace. The registration indicates Larry has had the plane a long time so I suppose he would know the ins and outs of an A. https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N6099X
Mooneymite Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 I have no experience with an M-20A, however, my experience with the Mooneymite taught me caution. Wooden pieces and parts can be strong forever, if properly cared for, but there's not much data on aging glue! I wouldn't buy a 55 year old plane that had spent much time outside....and after that much time, who really knows? There are a lot of places visual inspection is difficult, if not impossible and you have to know what you're looking at. IA's with wood-wing expertise are getting tougher to find. Be very careful.
Seth Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 Since you have your A&P, and if you can get it for a steal it may make sense. With no log books, being a wood A model, it will have very low resale unless you find the right buyer. Should you move forward with this airplane, decide the resale is nothing or simply parting it out. That way if you get anything for it, it will be a bonus. If you plan to fix it up, fly it, and keep it yourself, the resale doesn't matter and you'll get a very nice cross country machine for 2 adults and at times a third or a kid - rear seat legroom is limited on the short body models. Good luck! -Seth
bonal Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 If you are looking for something unique like having a rare airplane it could be a good choice but if you are looking for a functional airframe that you intend to spend lots of time flying I think a B or C would be more practical. As always the question of affording an airplane has to be considered and perhaps this A is very inexpensive and you want to keep the cost low. If I'm not mistaken the A model has a 150HP and may not give you the speed you desire. But all fixed up it would be very cool to see on the ramp. Welcome to Mooney space and enjoy.
Bob_Belville Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 There were 499 M20As build from 1958-60. They had the O360-A1A (180 HP Lycoming, same as the C. The previous M20 had the O320 - 150 HP. I suppose performance for the M20A would be very similar to a C in similar condition. The cabin might not be as "modern" as Cs and Es but legroom etc should be comparable. Each model, including Js and later, evolved quite a bit from year to year.
Bob_Belville Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 If you are looking for something unique like having a rare airplane it could be a good choice but if you are looking for a functional airframe that you intend to spend lots of time flying I think a B or C would be more practical. As always the question of affording an airplane has to be considered and perhaps this A is very inexpensive and you want to keep the cost low. If I'm not mistaken the A model has a 150HP and may not give you the speed you desire. But all fixed up it would be very cool to see on the ramp. Welcome to Mooney space and enjoy. The A is 180 HP O360A1A, same as B, C.
DaV8or Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 Of the very few original M20s made, I wonder how many were converted to A status over the years? I have never met, or read online of anyone owning an original M20, however I guess there are still a few out there. Wasn't there one at Oshkosh this year as part of the Mooney display? The only M20A I have ever actually seen in person sadly has since crashed and is no more.
bonal Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 There were 499 M20As build from 1958-60. They had the O360-A1A (180 HP Lycoming, same as the C. The previous M20 had the O320 - 150 HP. I suppose performance for the M20A would be very similar to a C in similar condition. The cabin might not be as "modern" as Cs and Es but legroom etc should be comparable. Each model, including Js and later, evolved quite a bit from year to year. See you learn something every day and it's not even 0900. There was something in the back of my head telling me that I might be mistaken on the point.
kerry Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 I have an A model and I really like it. If you've had a Viking then you'll now the joys of having a wood wing. In my opinion is it's not as critical to change out the bungees as often as the later metal wing Mooneys. Again this is my opinion. The wood wing flexes like a suspension unto itself unlike the metal wing which is more ridged. The wood wing has aluminum fuel tanks so you don't have to worry about the abuse the later metal wet wing takes from hardened bungees. A few years ago I fuel leak. It took me about one hour to remove the fuel tank and cost about $20 for a weld shop to repair it. A much different story compared to the expense of those on this site that need repairs on their wet wings. Hope you get it and keep the wood fleet going. 3
Bob_Belville Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 Of the very few original M20s made, I wonder how many were converted to A status over the years? I have never met, or read online of anyone owning an original M20, however I guess there are still a few out there. Wasn't there one at Oshkosh this year as part of the Mooney display? The only M20A I have ever actually seen in person sadly has since crashed and is no more. There were 170 M20s built from '55-58 (model change over to M20A was during the '58 model year.) I think the As were the first to have a metal tail but I may be wrong about that. Ball does not seem to address that detail.
Sfcrusscanter Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Posted December 15, 2014 Wow, a lot of quick replies since I typed this last night. The log books should be found eventually. I did swing by the shop that did the annual in 2010 and the owner gave me the file with his copies of the last annual and 337's for the tail replacement. So I have a starting point and the engine time was at 1845 hours. I'm thinking that it would pretty much be the aircraft time since it still had the old tail that should have been replaced decades ago. My IA does a lot of old Waco's and mono coupes, he has several birds that he restored for people that placed well in OSK, so I should be covered if needing woodwork. The interior is original, ie... shot... I've replaced the interior of a Tripacer before, so I figure I can do this one as well. I will have to work out a deal with the IA so his son would install some decent Nav/Coms. I hate chasing sparks... I went through the Lycoming engine school several years ago and I'm not worried about the firewall forward area. I wouldn't be selling it for a while. I just want something faster than my hoopty for visiting family back east. But the hoopty is good for local flyins and dropping into 1200 foot grass strips my friends have. Thank you guys for the feedback. I'm going to like this site. Russ 2
N601RX Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 From what I have read the A's are very slick and fast.
Bob_Belville Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 Wow, a lot of quick replies since I typed this last night. The log books should be found eventually. I did swing by the shop that did the annual in 2010 and the owner gave me the file with his copies of the last annual and 337's for the tail replacement. So I have a starting point and the engine time was at 1845 hours. I'm thinking that it would pretty much be the aircraft time since it still had the old tail that should have been replaced decades ago. My IA does a lot of old Waco's and mono coupes, he has several birds that he restored for people that placed well in OSK, so I should be covered if needing woodwork. The interior is original, ie... shot... I've replaced the interior of a Tripacer before, so I figure I can do this one as well. I will have to work out a deal with the IA so his son would install some decent Nav/Coms. I hate chasing sparks... I went through the Lycoming engine school several years ago and I'm not worried about the firewall forward area. I wouldn't be selling it for a while. I just want something faster than my hoopty for visiting family back east. But the hoopty is good for local flyins and dropping into 1200 foot grass strips my friends have. Thank you guys for the feedback. I'm going to like this site. Russ You sound like just the guy to provide TLC to a classic Mooney. We need to keep them flying! 2
rbridges Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 From what I have read the A's are very slick and fast. I thought I'd read they were slightly quicker since the wood wings weighed less than the metal? Not sure if I'm remembering it correctly or not. Anyway, I think it's good that the motor is near TBO. Not running for 3+ years definitely hasn't helped, and it may need replaced very soon.
kerry Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 I thought I'd read they were slightly quicker since the wood wings weighed less than the metal? Not sure if I'm remembering it correctly or not. Anyway, I think it's good that the motor is near TBO. Not running for 3+ years definitely hasn't helped, and it may need replaced very soon. No rivets. Clean like glass. My A has a true airspeed of 150 kts cruise.
bonal Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 No rivets. Clean like glass. My A has a true airspeed of 150 kts cruise. Swweeeet!
KSMooniac Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 One of the Wiebe brothers in Halstead, KS is apparently quite the expert on wood-wing Mooneys, so you might look him up. As mentioned earlier, there is another owner in TX that has been flying his A all over for quite a few years now. Here is his site: http://www.n6030x.com/ (He later changed the N number from N6030X) 1
rbridges Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 One of the Wiebe brothers in Halstead, KS is apparently quite the expert on wood-wing Mooneys, so you might look him up. As mentioned earlier, there is another owner in TX that has been flying his A all over for quite a few years now. Here is his site: http://www.n6030x.com/ (He later changed the N number from N6030X) that guy has an interesting website. I loved the old mooney ads. I particularly like the one with the lifetime warranty on the wood wings. You have to have the holes inspected by an MSC every 90 days, and the rear seat has to be removed and varnish applied. That would be 240 entries. I wonder how long anyone was able to keep up with the inspections?
BigTex Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 that guy has an interesting website. I loved the old mooney ads. I particularly like the one with the lifetime warranty on the wood wings. You have to have the holes inspected by an MSC every 90 days, and the rear seat has to be removed and varnish applied. That would be 240 entries. I wonder how long anyone was able to keep up with the inspections? Dave had his plane on display during last years MAPA convention. Beautiful plane and really enjoyed looking it out!
kerry Posted December 15, 2014 Report Posted December 15, 2014 that guy has an interesting website. I loved the old mooney ads. I particularly like the one with the lifetime warranty on the wood wings. You have to have the holes inspected by an MSC every 90 days, and the rear seat has to be removed and varnish applied. That would be 240 entries. I wonder how long anyone was able to keep up with the inspections? The rear seat and fuel tank needs to be removed to check the spar at annual time, but the AD doesn't mention anything about applying varnish. The varnish is probably needed if in need of a wood repair. All my wood repairs are done with wood tooth picks and elmer's glue. lol
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