help with "which model"

[stapler101]

I have 450 hours in Piper and Cessnas. I just sold a Cherokee and a182. I want to move into a Mooney because of the speed and ecomomy.

My flights will normally be single or with one other adult. 200 miles or less. I do want a reasonable back seat for the times I do have 3 passengers.

I am trying to stay at 45000 or less. Reasonable radios are desired and an auto pilot woud be nice.

I seem to be leaning toward an F model (based on price) and size. At 6'3, 215 lbs, I want the stretched cabin.

The one owner of the one I have inquired about says it crusies at 145 MPH (not knots) burning 7 gph. He did not specify an cruise setting %.

Does this seem slow?

Any suggestions or comments will be appreciated!

[bonal]

45k for a good F would be a tough but not impossible find. As for speed with a 7 GPH burn he is likely running on a reduced power setting also what measure of speed indicated actual ground all will vary as you know. My numbers for our C run around 135 knots true with power pulled back and on a good day running wide open we see about 145 knots true at 8.5 Good luck with your search and as you have no doubt seen the other threads get a good PPI before you buy.

[aaronk25]

That's probably right given the 7gph....push it up to 10gph and it will move out faster.

Sounds like you found your match at 45k.

I have a J and it's about 10kts faster than a stock F, but if there are speed mods on the F, they can be similar in speed. 10kts over 200 miles isn't a big deal.

[ArtVandelay]

I would get a hold of a POH for performance specs, take claims with grain of salt, so many variables like mixture, prop setting, altitude, temperature, etc

F sounds like a good choice for your mission

[Marauder]

I own a 75 F model. With speed mods (windshield, gap seals, lower cowl enclosure, etc.) you can expect to see around 150KTAS at 9.5 to 10 GPH ROP.

The late model Fs, including the 75 and 76 models are identical internally to the 77 J but the 77 J will have a different engine and will come with a different cowl and the newer style windshield.

The 74 and earlier models will have some differences in the panel layout and as you go back in years, you will start see manual gear (not a bad thing).

Prices for Fs are all over the place. Some, like mine, have been heavily modified driving the desired sellin price up. You may get lucky and find a motivated F or early J owner who will sell lower.

[triple8s]

An F or 201 is an increase in price that if spent on the purchase of an E or even a C would get you lots of mods and or newer avionics, but if you are hauling three often you will (or the person setting in the back) will appreciate the room. My wife is short and when I owned a C she would set sideways in the back and she found that comfortable. The short body IMHO handles a bit better but the long body I have now gives more stability in the bumpy air, the mid length mooney is the compromise between the two. That's why I should have two Mooneys! Lol

[stapler101]

thanks for all the replies!

My search will kick into high gear because, after 10 days, I am feeling "grounded"!

[aaronk25]

My J at 7gph will do about 135kts=155mph so a stock F is bit less slippery but the lower the IAS the 2 planes numbers start getting closer together.

I'd believe that plane would do 145mph on 7 gallons.

A "B" model would most likely not.

[Guest]

thanks for all the replies!

My search will kick into high gear because, after 10 days, I am feeling "grounded"!

Don't be in a huge panic to get yourself a Mooney. Haste makes waste comes to mind. Do your research and then be sure to get a thorough pre purchase inspection. Old airplanes harbor many secrets.

Clarence

[Mooneymite]

Just happened to see this on Barnstormers for comparason.  I have no first hand knowledge of this aircraft, or seller.

 

MOONEY M20F NEW ENG NEW PROP. • $48,500 • GREAT BUY • Very Fine200Hp 1968 Mooney Executive M20F. ATT 2180.17, Engine SMOH 3.1, Prop since new 3.1 King Radios including KLN 35A GPS, KX 155 Nav Comm, KX 125Nav Comm, KT 764 XPDR and KMA 24 Audio Panel. Very nice paint always hangered and clean interior. Engine overhauled by certified repair station and propeller is new three bladed Hartzell. New nose wheel biscuits. Annual due in November 2014. New starter. This aircraft is ready to fly with no additional work or effort required. • Contact Tracy D. Van Iwarden, Friend of Owner - located Vacaville, CA USA • Telephone: 707 410-8949 . • Posted September 30, 2014 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser • Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Email Advertiser• Save to Watchlist • Report This Ad • View Larger Pictures

 

 

[stapler101]

thanks again!

Clarence, I was mostly kidding. I will take my time and, hopefully, find a Mooney that was as great as my Cherokee and my 182.

[Hank]

Your mission is perfect for an electric C. Get the 201 windshield. I run ~8 gph, 135 mph indicated at 3000 msl on short burger runs (23"/2300). When traveling, it's close to 9 gph block time and I average 140 knots.

Recently flew out under the edge of low overcast blowing in. All three levers fully forward, 1000 agl (1200-1300 msl), I was indicating 165 mph for about 5minutes until I was clear and could climb.

I don't fill all seats often, or for long trips, but 200 nm would work. (My seat is the same on all trips! )

Happy hunting!

[Andy95W]

My flights will normally be single or with one other adult. 200 miles or less.

You have described the perfect mission profile for an M20C.

6'3" will fit very nicely in a C. The back seater behind you would be a little cramped, but for less than 1.5 hours. No problem.

$45,000 with decent radios and maybe autopilot? M20C

Basically, I agree with Hank with the exception of the "electric" C. I've owned both and far prefer the Johnson bar landing gear.

IMO, you should be as realistic as possible about your expected passenger count and the frequency of that occurring. The F is a great airplane, but the back seat legroom is only a few inches more for less than an hour and a half flight (baggage space is the other few extra inches).

[BigTex]

For me, the biggest issue I have with my C is not the back seat leg room, it's baggage space.  I always find that if me and the wife go on a trip of any length, our luggage always spills over into the back seat.  I can't image doing anything other than a quick day trip with more than two folks.  And in those situations, we're only talking a couple of hours which isn't that bad.

[Danb]

Gary, I think most Mooneys baggage spills over to the back seats,at least they are then used. I have a long body and once the wife starts filling up the bags the seat behind me becomes storage....still beats most product B's worrying about the moving cg's

[ryoder]

I don't see 19 squared in the poh but I run 1800 17mp and burn six gph at about 105 to 110 indicated in my 65M20C. I'd like to fly 19 squared some day when flying in a hurry to see what it burns. I am just enjoying the view and building time right now.

[bonal]

We keep a fair amount of stuff in the back, cover, emergency pack, tools a tow bar and oils and still have enough space for luggage for three. Our short body is perfect for our mission normally just the two of us with luggage in the back and our flight bags on the back seat for quick access. I think you would get the best bang for your buck with an E. I would love the extra hp of the injected motor but honestly I have more faith in an old carburetor than an old injection system. The nice thing about points and carburetors is they fail slowly giving signs that there are problems. whereas injection and electronics usually fail suddenly and completely IMHO.

[carusoam]

Having a carb jet is similar to having a mechanical fuel injector...

They are both nozzles that in the worst case can get blocked...

The carb only has one main nozzle. Don't let it get blocked.

Whatever allows you to feel comfortable is good with me.

Fly early and often.

Best regards,

-a-

[bonal]

In all my experience with carbs (webers Holley Rochester Carter's Mikuni Kuni and yes even SU Zenith storm berg and some I can't even name) I have never had a main jet clog so completely that the engine quit. Lots of cases where dirt contamination or deposits from fuel have caused them to lose performance but as I said you can tell the problem is developing and service it before it fails. Floats can leak but this usually happens when the engine has sat and then it just won't start still safe on the ground. Any mech devise can fail but a carb is a much simpler devise. Usually if there is a problem with a carburetor the engine won't start to begin with.

[Andy95W]

In all my experience with carbs (webers Holley Rochester Carter's Mikuni Kuni and yes even SU Zenith storm berg and some I can't even name) I have never had a main jet clog so completely that the engine quit. Lots of cases where dirt contamination or deposits from fuel have caused them to lose performance but as I said you can tell the problem is developing and service it before it fails. Floats can leak but this usually happens when the engine has sat and then it just won't start still safe on the ground. Any mech devise can fail but a carb is a much simpler devise. Usually if there is a problem with a carburetor the engine won't start to begin with.

+1

Love my C!

[gsxrpilot]

In my first 75 hours, only 4 of them have been with 3 seats occupied.  And three of those hours were during my initial 5 hours for insurance purposes.

 

I gave $48k and got a C with all the speed mods, 530W, STech30/Alt, HSI, etc.  Every time I fly I'm glad I have my well equipped C and not a lesser equipped E, F or J.

[Hank]

I don't see 19 square. in the poh but I run 1800 17mp and burn six gph at about 105 to 110 indicated in my 65M20C. I'd like to fly 19 squared some day when flying in a hurry to see what it burns. I am just enjoying the view and building time right now.

Im sorry, but 19/1900 is NOT "flying in a hurry," its loafing along sightseeing. In a hurry is 7500 msl or higher, full throttle and 2500.

My C keeps back with Skyhawks at 2000 msl using ~16"/2300; no fuel flow but the pump usually shows around 6 gph, call it 115-120 mph indicated. Usually I run 23/2300 there when not passing through in climb/descent.

[aaronk25]

I know I have a J model but anything under 2250 regardless of rpm isn't smooth and I start picking up a vibration, I think it's a prop vibration, I have the updated round tip. If a lower m.p. Is desired that's fine but I leave the rpms at 2300.

I'd like to be able to run at 2000 at low power settings but I think it wears the engine mounts and baffling more from vibration doing so. Maybe the lower compression o360 are different.

[FloridaMan]

Where are you located? I don't think you'll see those numbers on <200 mile trips since you'll be climbing out for part of the trip and will be full rich for at least the first part. I think you should be able to find an M20F all day long for < $45,000 that will serve your mission of 200 miles or less. For such trips, I would assume you'll be VFR and the panel isn't all that important. I think if you accepted a mid time engine and an old panel that you could possibly even find one for significantly less than $40k. 

 

As for your size. I'm 6'1 and around 200 lbs and I've flown with another person who's 6'4 and two women in the back seat for two hour trips without issue. There is more room in the left seat than the right. 

[cliffy]

In 14 years I've had 4 in my C 3 times for short flights. 99% of the time is just us 2. Taught the wife to pack light- 1 roller bag and a computer bag. Use the back seat for lunch box and drinks and maps.  WOT, 2500 RPM ROP 8.5 GPH 9500 to 11500' 135 KTS up there. Down lower 130-140 KTS at 9.5 GPH.   ALL speeds TAS NOT GS. Charlie Armstrong gear and flaps. The 180 HP engine is cheaper by far to overhaul as opposed to the 200 horse one. I'm 6'2" and the C fits me fine. 

Get one set up the way you want it. Far cheaper than trying to change things around after purchase. 

Make sure you get an autopilot with alt hold but don't discount the Brittain huff and puff A/Ps. They're good and they're cheap to fix for this vintage airplane.

Any one you consider should have a panel mounted GPS of reasonable vintage. KLN 89B KLN 90, Garmin 155 TSO at the very least hooked up to the A/P.