KSN 770 demo/ ADS-B Q&A

[Bill Dunn]

I don't believe anything will display on a RDR-160 because it is a stand alone weather radar.

[Bill Dunn]

I think I may try and take a short video so that I can put it on youtube and provide a link. for those guys that can't make it.

[Piloto]

I don't believe anything will display on a RDR-160 because it is a stand alone weather radar.

Thanks for the info. Many twins and turbo prop singles use onboard radar, specially for those that fly outside the US (no XM or ADS-B/WX). Not having radar capability limits their market appeal.

 

José 

[Bill Dunn]

you really can't beat onboard radar. same with active traffic, they both give you real time info centralized to you.

[amillet]

Any thoughts on resale value of aircraft with KSN vs. GTN?

[Bill Dunn]

I don't think there will be much of a difference in that area but I know nothing about buying and selling aircraft.

[carusoam]

More value....?

First, one would have to get a KSN installed, then you would have to sell your plane, then you would have to compare to similar planes that have been sold....

Realistically how much value can a pilot add by putting in a $10k bolt on radio?

Essentially a very small difference is available between adding one radio of G or BK.

Of course...

If your target market is dentists in NJ, be sure to have the G installed.

Bolt on devices that age don't add much value beyond what the device can be sold for on eBay...

You would probably be best served by seeing which plane sold in the shortest period of time?

You would probably be worst served by adding an expensive installation of any box hoping it would add value for sale?

Ask your customer what he wants...

overall, it is going to take some time for various users to get these installed and some more time to get a wide breadth of experience.

My eyes will be following a certain CFII with a plane similar to mine.

The real winner will be the customers with a choice.

Up until now, we have only G branded WAAS receivers. No choice = increased expensive (in the market)

Competition has a tendency to improve prices.

I hope the KSN is a worthy competitor.

Great question,

-a-

[Bill Dunn]

We are sitting in on a Avidyne webinar right now. The IFDs are VERY nice!! So many great features and they are a plug and play swap with the 530!!!

I can't wait to see how the KSN compares as well!

[carusoam]

Eye candy + BK published discounts....

http://go.bendixking.com/KSN770-save-on-complementary-avionics?utm_source=Ad&utm_medium=Web&utm_content=AOPA&utm_campaign=Fall-Promo-600x250

Three suppliers is better than two!

-a-

[Bill Dunn]

I have those numbers for Saturday as well.

[carqwik]

Looking forward to a write-up of this event as I'm leaning towards this unit and the KT-74 to meet the ADS-B requirements.  Thinking that I have an all BK stack now so it may be an easier integration.

[M016576]

We are sitting in on a Avidyne webinar right now. The IFDs are VERY nice!! So many great features and they are a plug and play swap with the 530!!!

I can't wait to see how the KSN compares as well!

Not sure if this is economically possible, but if Avidyne priced their 440 /540 IFD about 1K higher than a used 430W (ie- ~7K, they would probably sell about 4x the number... At their current price point, I don't see them selling nearly as many units, as the GTN's and KNS's are so close in cost. At a lower price, more pilots (myself included) would trade in their 430W/530W for the upgrade... But it's extremely hard for me to justify 6 grand (12K for ifd440 minus 6k for what I could sell my 430W for) just so I can rubber band a flight plan rather than twist it in via the 430W knob. After all, you get no new capability with the newer units... Just a different interface. Here's to hoping one of these company's can figure out a way to mass market appeal to the little guys (and/or the cheap B. club members like myself).

[Bill Dunn]

That unit does a lot more than the rubber band flight plans. It has a built in terrain awareness, built in Bluetooth (that will do the same thing as Garmins flight stream), can store a ton of frequencies, it has "geo fill" which is intelligent software that uses your location when you are typing in identifiers so that ones logical to your flight plan show up. There are a ton of other features on there that may make it worth your wild. I didn't know about half of them until I watched the webinar.

I think their main market are the ones that need a fast turn around ie business class and air carriers so they don't have to bring the plane down for more than a day.

If you want to find out anything else just give me a call at the shop.

I do agree with you that their price point is a little hight though.

[M016576]

That unit does a lot more than the rubber band flight plans. It has a built in terrain awareness, built in Bluetooth (that will do the same thing as Garmins flight stream), can store a ton of frequencies, it has "geo fill" which is intelligent software that uses your location when you are typing in identifiers so that ones logical to your flight plan show up. There are a ton of other features on there that may make it worth your wild. I didn't know about half of them until I watched the webinar.

I think their main market are the ones that need a fast turn around ie business class and air carriers so they don't have to bring the plane down for more than a day.

If you want to find out anything else just give me a call at the shop.

I do agree with you that their price point is a little hight though.

You're right- I was being overly critical- the features are nice, but my point is that none of the new GPS's can get me to lower minimums than my current 430W. I get no new capability in that regards- so it's strictly a user interface upgrade for me. And that alone is impossible to justify paying 6K out of pocket. I would think that most commercial operations would not pay that either if they already had a 430W on board... Because then they would have to A) pay the extra cash. pay to train their pilots. And C) still get no new capability... Just creature comforts.

Now, if you have no WAAS GPS to start with, then that's a different story. But to tout how these new boxes are slide in replacements for a 430W/530W, then charge as much or more than a 750 makes me think it's either a cost requirement or just a marketing ploy.

Avidyne really had the opportunity to sell lots of their 440/540 units though and take a huge bite out of garmin' monopoly on the WAAS gps market... All they had to do is drop their price about 3-4K. It's a shame they can't/didn't/won't.

Then again- I don't even know if that's possible- could be impossible based on cost of certification.

Rant complete.

[Bill Dunn]

I agree completely that it's to expensive. I think it should be around the same cost as a 650 rather than a 750.

[Piloto]

The main market for the KSN-770 and IFD-540 is for those planes that have no panel mount moving map at all or for new planes. For those with the 530 already there is no worth it added benefit. The G530W has proven to be a reliable COM/Navigator. The 540/770 has not proven that yet. Time will say.

 

José

[Alan Fox]

Hose' get your butt to Penn tomorrow.... if you leave at three AM , you should arrive in time to drink a cup of coffee and catch the seminar!!!! Bill will give you a free pitot static....And Anthony will give you 5 liters of 100ll , I will graciously give you a hard time......see you in the morning !!!!

[Marauder]

Hose' get your butt to Penn tomorrow.... if you leave at three AM , you should arrive in time to drink a cup of coffee and catch the seminar!!!! Bill will give you a free pitot static....And Anthony will give you 5 liters of 100ll , I will graciously give you a hard time......see you in the morning !!!!

I will throw in a portable ADS-B solution. I know much José loves those

So you are coming Alan? I saw the seats you sold to the Mooniac at Brandywine. Looked great! Why couldn't you find me a set?! See you in the morning.

[Bill Dunn]

See you guys in the morning!

[carusoam]

See yous,

-a-

[M016576]

Well? How's that KNS demo out??? Inquiring minds want to know the verdict!

[Marauder]

Well, er, ah, er, er... I'd rather not say.

[Bill Dunn]

I'll be honest... I wasn't impressed but I believe it will really appeal to some people.

[Marauder]

Just the opinion of a lowly F pilot and card carrying member of the Cheap Bast&$d Club.

General observations:

1) Open hierachy, will interface with almost everything you would want it to interface to.

2) Price point. With the group buy, it would make absolute sense for someone who has no GPS to pursue.

3) Decent sized display. Has the ability to declutter like the Garmin and Aspen equipment.

4) Aspen influence throughout the window and menu functions. As you know I am an Aspen fan (and owner of the technology). This was the big unknown for me. If you use the Aspen products, it will look and feel familiar. Split and triple screens will allow you to get more information than by jumping back and forth through menus.

Where I think the product falls short is the logical flow of how aviators use the technology. Aspen's buttonolgy works for PFDs and MFDs because you are doing a point and click for a specific task at hand. You want "arc mode" on the display, you press the "arc/360" button. You want to change the heading bug, the right knob defaults to heading and you just start turning the knob to change the heading.

This approach doesn't translate to the navigator as easily. And that is what I saw. The "flow" we would want to see isn't there. Too many steps to modify or change something.

I don't want to be overly critical because the fire hose drinking I did on the GTN also happened. It just was more intuitive. I will be back out there to play with it again and see if it is because Marauder is slow on the uptake or there really is a GUI problem.

[bnicolette]

I will throw in a portable ADS-B solution. I know much José loves those

 

Well, you ain't getting my portable ADSb unit buddy!!!  Look at what a waste of money this was, and I've been using it for the last two years.  This pic was taken yesterday. ( I really think it will be certified before 2020.......See pinocchio pic. )