Tank sealant debis

[DaV8or]

Being a newby, I have to ask, how much do older tanks typically drain bits and pieces of the tank sealant when pre flighting? My tanks don't leak, but they are mostly original and everytime I drain a sample, I get a fair amount of pinkish red debis in the GATS jar. This is my first wet wing, so I'm not sure what is "normal". I know I'm in for a reseal someday not too far off, but how much debris can I handle and how hard is it to regularly change the fuel filter? The amount of crap I'm getting must be clogging something somewhere.

[clh]

I am not an expert, but I have never gotten debris from my tanks.. I would be very concerned about plugging!

[Immelman]

Dave, I do not get any sealant from my tanks either (still original 40+ yr old sealant). I *do* occasionally get bits of crud, sand, etc that will cause the drain to not close completely that I have to work out; I am not sure if sealant could be part of the culprit.

[M016576]

I remember my first wet wing: the T-2C Buckeye...  It was an "up jet" as long as the fuel wasn't leaking more than one drop every 7 seconds.  If no fuel was coming out, then the wing tanks were probably empty!  Obviously, that is NOT how a mooney should be! 

Honestly, I haven't had any problems with sealant in the fuel sump: and like the other guys, I'd be suspicious if I found some in there.  Continue to drain the lowpoint fuel until there is no debris or risk shedding your engine driven fuel pump or boost pump.  If you do suspect you're spitting fuel sealant into the fuel lines, then I'd go get the tanks stripped and re-sealed, or at least get it looked at by an A&P experienced with mooneys....

[231Pilot]

I have had two Mooneys, one that had tank leaks, strips, reseals, etc., and one that has not ever leaked.  I have had some debris almost completely clog a fuel filter on a flight in hard IFR, and the rough running was more than a bit disconcerting.  A&P said there was "trash in the screen" but did not indicate that he thought it was sealant.  If I were to get debris in my fuel samples, I would drain the sumps until they are clear, wait a day and go through the process again.  If clear, I would fly her around the patch a couple of times, park her, wait an hour or longer to let the fuel and any possible debris settle and check again.  If there is still debris, I'm paying for a complete strip and reseal....it's a lot cheaper than an unscheduled departure from the skies.

[skyking]

After what i went through with debris in my fuel i would be very concerned with anything in my tanks.

I got some bad fuel from a remote Northern FBO 2 weeks ago and it clogged my idle jets resulting in my engine quittting when i powered back on final at my next stop.

I would get it checked out.

[KSMooniac]

No debris is normal, I'm afraid.  Lew's idea about draining repeatedly sounds like a good first step to me.

I can't remember if your plane had sat a long time or not before you got it, or if the prebuy noted anything tank-related.  Can you refresh my memory?

[DaV8or]

Quote: KSMooniac

No debris is normal, I'm afraid.  Lew's idea about draining repeatedly sounds like a good first step to me.

I can't remember if your plane had sat a long time or not before you got it, or if the prebuy noted anything tank-related.  Can you refresh my memory?

[carusoam]

Filter locations:  One on each fuel pick up in the tank,  Gascolator has a screen. 

Are there any others?

 

-a-

[DaV8or]

I'm off to Top Gun on Thursday to flush the tanks and clean the screens. They say that just running a bunch of fuel through the tank until it comes out clean is about all you can do. If it persists, strip and reseal or bladders is all you can do. They recommended Advanced Aircraft in Oregon for the strip and reseal. They don't seem to have a website. Anybody know this shop?

[Guest Anonymous]

Advanced Aircraft is in Troutdale (near Portland) and I think that they are still a Mooney Service Center.  I do not know the current status of the shop.  Most of the Eastern Oregon guys all go to Reliant in Albany (http://www.reliantaviation.net/).   They are also a Mooney Service Center and seem to do a lot more work and also have more of a local reputation for heaver maintenance work.

RFB

[KSMooniac]

I do believe Advanced Aircraft has licensed the process developed by Willmar, and they should be a good choice.  I have no direct experience with them, though.  Willmar did my tanks and they've been great ever since then (2008).  Norman Howell (posts here as "testwest") is having or had his J done at AA, so you might contact him directly for a PIREP.

[testwest]

Our Mooney went through the entire Weep No More strip and reseal process at Advanced Aircraft in Troutdale a few months back. Since then, it has not leaked one drop.  Highly recommended, if you need that job done that is where I would go!

[DaV8or]

Quote: testwest

Our Mooney went through the entire Weep No More strip and reseal process at Advanced Aircraft in Troutdale a few months back. Since then, it has not leaked one drop.  Highly recommended, if you need that job done that is where I would go!

[testwest]

The full meal deal cost for the Weep No More was $8300. They quoted 3 weeks process time which was very accurate. The work order I got has a detailed work breakdown, I can post it if you want. Good luck!

[DaV8or]

Quote: testwest

The full meal deal cost for the Weep No More was $8300. They quoted 3 weeks process time which was very accurate. The work order I got has a detailed work breakdown, I can post it if you want. Good luck!

[KSMooniac]

Jim, don't forget the extra 30+ lbs that were included too. 

[DaV8or]

Quote: JimR

Dave,

O&N installed 64 gallon bladders in my 201 two years ago for almost exactly that price (plus tax).  I think that that included a few hundred dollar price break because I had the job done during their Oshkosh special pricing period (which I didn't even know about until the price break was reflected on my invoice).  They required only three business days to turn the job around and offered a five year warranty.  Warranty work, if necessary, can be performed by your local A&P and does not require that your aircraft be returned to them for service.  New fuel caps and stainless steel filler rings are included. 

Jim

[conom06d]

Quote: DaV8or

Well, the current pricing on their website is $7,750 for the 64 gallon tanks just for the kit. The labor is estimated at 50 hours, so in my area that equates to about $4500, I guess I could travel to a cheaper labor area somewhere, but I can't see getting the labor charge under $2500 if it really is 50 hours. They do offer a $100 discount to MAPA members and maybe they will do a deal at Oshkosh, so I'll be asking them.

[DaV8or]

Quote: conom06d

Well I'm kind of glad i found this thread yet at the same time i am not. I have this red debris too in my right tank but I always sump it out every time i fly. Now that I know what it is...i'm not looking forward to seeing the bill haha. Is that the price of the O&N bladder you saw or the reseal in oregon?

[The-sky-captain]

I have a little bit of black grit that comes out when I sump. Its been there since I bought the plane. I've put 300 hrs on it in the year and a half I've owned it and the amount of grit has stayed constant. Wet wingologists sealed the tanks about 5 yrs ago and I have no leaks. I'm going to have Maxwell look at it at my next annual

[DaV8or]

Here's what happened today. I went to my hanger and put a bucket under the gas collator with a clean paper towel across it. I drained it twice to see what would get caught in the paper towel. Nothing. Totally clean. I then sampled the fuel from both tanks way more than usual, about 3/4 way up a GATS jar. The right tank turned up clean and the left tank really near clean. I then did both tanks again and this time both tanks came up clean. She ran up normal, so off to Top Gun I went.

At Top Gun, they drained about a gallon from each tank into a clean bucket and it appeared to come out clean. They took the screen out of the collator and it was found to be completely clean. They took the filter that is between the fuel pump and the throttle body and it was completely clean. When they emptied the bucket, they did then notice a tiny amount of dirt and sealant flakes. Their theory is that a couple of access panels to the tanks had been taken off recently, probably to do a patch, and the flakes are from that and that hopefully I will see less and less of the debris in my samples. They gave the plane a green light and said all seems good to go, but keep an eye on it. That, and of course, plan for new tanks someday not too distant in the future.

Mark had a walk around my plane and said all seems pretty good, but at the next annual I should consider new bushings for my tail assembly. It was in spec, but worn enough that they should be changed before they start to damage the brackets that hold the bushings. He also said my motor mounts could use some shimming as they looked like they were sagging. Nothing huge, but added annual expense. I was expecting stuff like this. I don't expect the next annual to be a cheap one.

Worse news was he informed me and showed me that I have one of the odd ball "twisted" or "bent" wing Mooneys. This means there is no affordable way to ever put sexy 231 wing tips on because nobody ever made a kit for the few planes out there like mine. He also said that while it would be possible to put the 201 style inner gear doors on, it's a really bad idea for me because my old Dukes actuator motor is too small and the extra work might kill it. Looks like I'm nearly speed modded out. Oh well, just have to put the money other places...

[Immelman]

Dave, it sounds like your tanks are in fine shape! I would not count on having to do a re-seal right away... I mean its something that could happen to any of us but I am flying around with 40+ year old sealant and a couple of patches in the logbook and am fundamentally OK.

Can you elaborate on the tail bushing issue? Was this detected by lifting up on the bottom of the empennage below the vertical stab to check for play in the pitch trim mechanism (others have referred to this pivot lovingly as the Jesus bolt.... if it goes, you're dead). I make lifting the empennage to check for play part of my preflight inspection. However, if you have some other kind of play going on I am curious to know where it is so I can monitor the area in my airplane.

[MooneyMitch]

Hi Dave.  Great news!!  Sounds like you've got a beauty.  I look forward to seeing your plane at LASAR.  Tail bushings/bolts for the trim pivot are not a show stopper at all.  Easy to do and/or have done.  Probably 1 hour of labor from the shop.   Happy, happy Mooney flying from now on!!! 

[DaV8or]

Quote: Immelman

Can you elaborate on the tail bushing issue? Was this detected by lifting up on the bottom of the empennage below the vertical stab to check for play in the pitch trim mechanism (others have referred to this pivot lovingly as the Jesus bolt.... if it goes, you're dead). I make lifting the empennage to check for play part of my preflight inspection. However, if you have some other kind of play going on I am curious to know where it is so I can monitor the area in my airplane.