Thoughts on this Mooney

[smitty9006]

I looked at this Mooney and I'm on the fence. My biggest concern is that the overhaul was done in '98 and it has only 200 hrs since then. It has original paint in good condition, no corrosion, original interior in decent condition, no leaks yet but tanks have not been resealed, flap gap seals, gear donuts are not new but seem ok, complete logs with all AD's documented and up to date, new scimitar prop and very low time airframe. It looks like it has always been hangared. What do you think?

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/listing?id=1091402

[carusoam]

It's in a lot better condition than the C I bought in 2000. Mine had set idle for a couple years and it's whole life outdoors. Looks like it may be IFR capable with an ILS.

There may be a couple of minor ADs to cover from aileron links, oil pump gears, and tail hinge.

There are some risks. That's what PPIs are for.

Corrosion of engine or airframe are the expensive things to have looked at.

If it's corrosion free, that would have been top of the list for me in 2000.

Are you able to speak with the previous owner?

Best regards,

-a-

[47U]

Has it had an annual inspection every year? Are the 175 smoh hours flown all bunched together right after the overhaul or spread out (10 hrs/yr avg since '98) or accumulated in the last few years? Any recent oil analysis history?

A thorough ppi (including perhaps pulling a cylinder) is certainly in order. At $42K, it's priced for an overhaul done 2-3 years ago, which is not the case here. Might not be a deal-breaker, but be realistic about what you're getting into.

[M20F-1968]

The best advice I can give is that:

 

1) There are no 40 year planes that in the visible condition you show that require no work.

     You will want to do the inspection and work as needed to be safe.

2) Going with the assumption that there is work to be done, you want to be sure that the airframe and engine will

    be worthy of the money and time spent - (That being said - you can always use your engine as a core and trade for new/rebuilt).

3) You do not want to spend much for avionics and equipment you will throw away and replace.

 

4) and lastly - You may be very lucky to find exactly what you want - in nice shape, either by being lucky, or by spending lots of

time and money looking, or by using a first class broker.   It is cheaper to find a plane with mods and avionics, etc that you want - but

truely good planes, particularly older ones will not be on Trade a Plane.

 

In the end, you get what you pay for.

 

John Breda

 

John Breda

[MooneyBob]

It's hard to say and it is a tough call specially when you fell in love with the plane as I did. My J had a new engine in 1999 and only 480 hours when I bought it this January. It was flying very little last 5 years. I think they just started the engine here and there. I was aware of the risk of corrosion in the engine. But the rest of plane was so nice including the paint job that I couldn't resist. Bring the point of the engine corrosion to the negotiating table and try to get the price down so you cover 1/2 of the overhaul. That's what I did. It worked.

Since last February I put 70 hours on my J, I change my oil every 25 hours and send the oil sample to the Blackstone labs every time ( 3 times so far). The first oil analysis wasn't too good but not too bad as well. But after another 25 hours the oil numbers improved dramatically. No visible metal in the oil filter too. Good compression on all cylinders. I know it is not a definitive answer to the corrosion problem but I do my best to keep it healthy. So far so good.

So I would ask the previous owner to run the engine hot, get the oil sample and send it overnight to the lab. Take the oil filter out and get it checked. If anybody can peek inside the cylinders with the bore scope that would help too.

Leaking tanks - mine leak too. It is what it is right now. It passed the annual. I don't smell any gas inside the cabin and I don't see any dripping.

Good luck.

[scottfromiowa]

The plane is overpriced. The online info seemed to suggest very little negotiation on price. The plane should be priced as if it needs a $28k engine overhaul. How old are other accessories? Were all updated with last overhaul? If no, MORE to do those.

Center Stack is a mirror of my current avionics. It is fine for VFR as GPS suggests, but will need a costly upgrade to be a solid IFR plane.

I would not pay over $33k for this plane in current condition...

That said, I spent over $50k for a plane in WAY worse condition ten years ago...

My must have's or price deduct accordingly on an M20E would be:

-1,000 or less on engine with at least 50 hours flying EVERY year since overhaul.

-Tanks resealed or bladders. Even if NOT leaking they WILL. $6500

-Garmin 430W ($15k with head)

-Auto Pilot w/altitude hold $10-15k

-No corrosion in tubular frame structure, gear wells, spar and wings-DEALBREAKER

The rest are details...

A plane with these items checked is worth $70k 'cause you will spend that much to get there and you WILL want these things.

Start at $40k WITH the engine and go from there...

I have spread my "pain" over the last ten years to get close to the above in my plane. Still no 430/650...

I would NOT sell my plane for under $70k...price guides would say less, but I know what has gone into the airframe. $70k would be a bargain...

[rbridges]

I have spread my "pain" over the last ten years to get close to the above in my plane. Still no 430/650...

I would NOT sell my plane for under $70k...price guides would say less, but I know what has gone into the airframe. $70k would be a bargain...

 

I know the feeling.  My plane is worth more than Vref to me.  I know how it's been treated over the past few years, and I'd hate to start over in a different plane.

[Danb]

Agree with u guys. Vref is merely a rough guide...My 2005 Bravo according to vref would be like me throwing money out the window..seems like they have dropped so much in the last 8-9 yrs..hopefully it will turn around again...maybe Mooney building planes again will push our values back up. Hopefully

[Roger O]

Smitty, listen to the guys above with all of the experience, they are correct.  The price is high especially as is.  If corrosion free, and the engine checks out, you still need to redo the radios if you want a real world IFR plane.  There are quite a few out there for less money that have more to offer.  I would keep looking...

 

Roger

[John Pleisse]

Low time...low time......low time. Unless it is a corrosion bucket, I think the low time is exceptional and trumps other risks. The engine will need work, but not a major. Buy.....fly it, fix it, repeat.  Beauty.

[DanM20C]

This is a sister ship to my 69 C.  Same exact interior, and nearly the same paint scheme.  I had to do a double take at the interior shots.  That being said, I got a whole lot more in terms of engine/avionics for slight less money then this listed price.  This one does have some desirable mods and the plane looks clean in the pictures.  The split rear seat backs are rare in the vintage Mooneys, I love having them. They recline and can give the rear passengers a feeling of more room.  And they can quickly be removed to allow a huge cargo space, making it the ultimate 2 place airplane.

 

I would offer in the mid 30's contingent on a pre-buy.  During the pre-buy I would have a jug pulled to get a good look at the cam for corrosion. And keep in mind if your looking to make this a good IFR platform adding a autopilot and 430 or better will add 20K+.  But as is this would be a great VFR ship.

 

Dan 

[Mooneymite]

I think that year Mooney had the Dukes electric gear drive with the AD on it.  No biggie, but make sure the part A and Part B have been complied with regularly (every 100 hours).  If it hasn't been taken care of, you could be looking at a fairly expensive re-build.

 

Perusing Barnstormers.com, it looks like the price is high, but it seems that Mooney prices are "firming up".  Naturally, a pre-buy will tell if it's a deal, or not.

[John Pleisse]

How can a 1969 model ever truly be "low time"? As a VFR cruiser priced almost as a runout this plane is very, very attractive. Otherwise, not so much, at least to me.

 

Looks like the yokes have never been touched.

[Brett Kallish]

John Breda, why do you think that the good airplanes will not be on trade a plane , and where do you find good mooney aircraft.

[KSMooniac]

A very valid way to find the premium planes is to hang out here (and on the Mooney email lists) and to network with the brokers and major MSC's to get leads on planes that might be coming to market, or at least owners considering it.  The brokers and MSC's especially will know which planes are good ones, and often can link a potential owner with a potential seller long before an ad is published.  

 

I got the jump on my J by knowing the FBO owner that took it in on trade, and I had looked at it, arranged financing, and got a purchase agreement in place before they advertised it... and especially before the 3 offers came in on the first day the ad hit the web.  

[carusoam]

The well known owners and planes appear for sale on...

(1) MooneySpace

The well known brokers include...

(2) AAA

(3) and others...

Ideas that come to mind...

Keep in mind there are planes that appear here with no history...

Best regards,

-a-

[DrBill]

Find the plane your want with the avionics you want already in it.  Avionics upgrades are EXPENSIVE and not recoverable.   I bought my 65 E 3 years ago (can't believe it's been that long already)  with all the goodies I wanted.. 430, autopilot w/alt hold, slaved hsi + + +..  The previous owner upgraded it in 2006 or 7 with $46K !

Which is what I parid for it (was listed at $52). It was not perfect and needed a few things but was airworthy in all aspects.

 

BILL

[scottfromiowa]

Find the plane your want with the avionics you want already in it.  Avionics upgrades are EXPENSIVE and not recoverable.   I bought my 65 E 3 years ago (can't believe it's been that long already)  with all the goodies I wanted.. 430, autopilot w/alt hold, slaved hsi + + +..  The previous owner upgraded it in 2006 or 7 with $46K !

Which is what I parid for it (was listed at $52). It was not perfect and needed a few things but was airworthy in all aspects.

 

BILL

THAT is how to buy a vintage Mooney! Well done.

[CGinSD]

Everyone has an... opinion. And here is mine for buying old Mooneys: figure out the value of the engine uninstalled, look up the uninstalled avionics prices on ebay and add the 2 numbers together. These days the hull should be free and the bits are already installed.

 

I think you have about 25K worth of engine and 3k worth of avionics here. Add on something if it looks pretty.

 

Pay very little when you buy as you'll be plunging money into the sweetheart for the rest of your days...

[Becca]

A 1998 overhaul with 200 hrs since... I would assume the engine is suspect, even if it has a good prebuy with good compressions and a good inspection, price the plane as if its a run out or lose to run out engine, and if you are willing to accept you need an overhaul at any time, and you are happy with the rest of the plane after that, press ahead.