orionflt Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 Ed, I have 21 hours on a freshly rebuilt Lycoming O-360 breaking the engine in with phillips XC 20W50, I did the 5 hr oil change and will be doing my next oil change with in the next 8-10 hours. my intentions were to use the phillips for another 25 hours then I was going to swap to change over to Aeroshell 100 plus with camguard, from reading this thread it sounds like you would recommend starting the changeover now? 1
PTK Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 OK Mr. Kollin. You have nothing from Continental Motors to substantiate your claims on voiding the warranty. How about telling us the truth now. What is this program really about? 1
DaV8or Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 Is there any movement, or acknowledgement from Lycoming yet? Seems like their engines benefit from Camguard use (hence the name of the product itself!) more than anybody else.
aaronk25 Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 OK Mr. Kollin. You have nothing from Continental Motors to substantiate your claims on voiding the warranty. How about telling us the truth now. What is this program really about? Ya know I get it you don't use the product, but just because Ed didn't respond yet doesn't mean he's not being truthful. It's an upcoming announcement in which I am sure he will fully substantiate his claims. Your picking up right where "all smiles" left off opposing camguard....wonder whatever happens to that guy? Just saying.....
KSMooniac Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 OK Mr. Kollin. You have nothing from Continental Motors to substantiate your claims on voiding the warranty. How about telling us the truth now. What is this program really about? Relax, please. He said the formal announcement (and certainly the written terms) will be made at Sun n Fun. This is a very, very significant development, so I would expect it takes some time to get the new warranty terms through the legal department. Perhaps he shouldn't have spilled the beans yet, but I can understand how big this is and I would have a hard time sitting on the news as well. I take it to mean that CMI studied the product and it's impact on reducing wear and corrosion, and hence reduction in potential warranty expenses on their products, and made the decision to go forward with this arrangement. It will be interesting to see if this news make Lycoming remove their heads from the sand...
PTK Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 Mr. Kollin your silence is deafening! Are you being truthful that the warranty is null and void on the engines mentioned if your additive is not used? Yes or No. 1
fantom Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 What announcement is that? Surely you must have something to substantiate your claim! Ed.....PLEASE ignore this provocateur. He knows not of what he speaks, you'll never get the last word in with him, and I suspect his inane questioning kept you off the board the last time you joined up. BTW, glad you're finally back.
Sabremech Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 I wouldn't have a problem with this as long as Continental pays for all the Camguard I would need. Two companies getting together and making an agreement that ups my operating costs (mandatory if I want the warranty coverage) with less than 100% proof of it's claimed benefit just doesn't sit well with me. David 2
1964-M20E Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 Warranty is what 24 months and 400 to 500 hours on a factory rebuild? We are not talking a 20 year 4000 hour warranty. Unless you are flying the 400 to 500 hours in 2 years you are looking at most 4 oil changes (@60 to 100hrs a yar) that you would have to use camguard. This is not a big deal in my book why all the commotion? I choose not to use camguard every oil change but have used it on occasion. Just like LOP it’s your engine and your plane you run it how you feel best. Just fly safe and get there and back.
PTK Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 This is not about any claimed benefit. This is about ethics, honesty and integrity. Don't come on here telling me the warranty is null and void unless you use my additive and then tell me you have nothing from Continental Motors to substantiate the claim. 1
KSMooniac Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 HE SAID THE INFO FROM CMI IS COMING AT SUN N FUN. JEEZ. LET IT REST. ONCE THE WRITTEN POLICY IS PUBLISHED, THEN YOU CAN CONTINUE GRINDING YOUR AX. 1
1TJ Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Posted March 24, 2014 Mr. Kollin your silence is deafening! Are you being truthful that the warranty is null and void on the engines mentioned if your additive is not used? Yes or No. Again, yes. I doesn't matter how many times or with how much vitriol you ask, the answer is yes. Continental told me to freely discuss this upcoming program in the forums I participate in. The formal anouncement will come at Sun n Fun with the details sometime after that as Continental has to change some of their written procedures. The situation is somewhat similar to Lycoming requiring the use of their LW16702 additive. It also raised the price of the oil(s). Ed 1
mike_elliott Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 Again, yes. I doesn't matter how many times or with how much vitriol you ask, the answer is yes. Continental told me to freely discuss this upcoming program in the forums I participate in. The formal anouncement will come at Sun n Fun with the details sometime after that as Continental has to change some of their written procedures. The situation is somewhat similar to Lycoming requiring the use of their LW16702 additive. It raises the price of the oil(s). Ed Ed, If Roger Gradle or his boss endorse it, then it is gospel in my book, regardless of the troll. These guys don't make decisions like this unfounded. Congrats! Mike Elliott (a cam guard user) 1
DonMuncy Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 So if you don't like it, don't buy an engine (or have an engine Overhauled) from anyone that requires it.
1TJ Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Posted March 24, 2014 So if you don't like it, don't buy an engine (or have an engine Overhauled) from anyone that requires it. Initially it will only impact Continental engines overhauled or repaired at their Mattituck facility with the Lycoming engines to follow. We will see where it goes as far as factory new and overhauled engines. We are also in discussions with other qualified engine shops to follow suit. Ed
Sabremech Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 So if the warranty is only 2 years and a few hundred hours, what's the benefit? This isn't when you'd have issues related to corrosion etc. I need some real world personal experience with this product to become an advocate for it. I'm a skeptic in any and all marketing until I've experienced results good or bad first hand. I doubt that I have my Lycoming long enough to get it overhauled and use this product until TBO and then see for myself if there was any reduced wear or corrosion. David 1
PTK Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 Continental told me to freely discuss this upcoming program in the forums I participate in. The formal anouncement will come at Sun n Fun with the details sometime after that as Continental has to change some of their written procedures. The situation is somewhat similar to Lycoming requiring the use of their LW16702 additive. It also raised the price of the oil(s). Ed Who at Continental told you to "freely discuss" that the warranty is null and void unless your additive is used? Do you have a name? It's ok to want to sell your additive. It's not ok to come on here claiming some one told you to discuss nullifying a warranty with nothing written to back it up. Time to stop the bs and come clean. Who at CM told you to discuss exactly what? 1
Cruiser Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 snip...... I take it to mean that CMI studied the product and it's impact on reducing wear and corrosion, and hence reduction in potential warranty expenses on their products, and made the decision to go forward with this arrangement. snip....... I am not so quick to jump to that conclusion. There maybe many other reasons this deal was made. I will believe the data when I see it released from Continental.
1TJ Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Posted March 24, 2014 Who at Continental told you to "freely discuss" that the warranty is null and void unless your additive is used? Do you have a name? It's ok to want to sell your additive. It's not ok to come on here claiming some one told you to discuss nullifying a warranty with nothing written to back it up. Time to stop the bs and come clean. Who at CM told you to discuss exactly what? I'm curious, do you feel the same way about Lycoming requiring the use of an additive (LW16702) or a more expensive oil in certain models of their engines FOR THE LIFE OF THOSE ENGINES, or is this selective outrage. Ed
1TJ Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Posted March 24, 2014 I am not so quick to jump to that conclusion. There maybe many other reasons this deal was made. I will believe the data when I see it released from Continental. Again I am curios, what other reasons do you envision. Ed
Earl Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 Well I missed the fun for sure. So one engine shop (Mattituck) will require Camguard to maintain their warranty. What's the big deal? If you don't like the product go to another shop and get your overhaul. As for me, I had a problem with sticking valves, added Camguard at the recommendation of my A&P and have not had a problem in the last 300 hours. It is not very expensive and in my experience works. And by the way, my engine was overhauled by Mattituck by the previous owner. Maybe they have seen enough issues like mine go away with Camguard to justify the decision.
Sabremech Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 It's one thing to use an additive to solve sticking valve issues etc where the results are felt and seen. It's another thing to require something that the results can't be verified by the consumer. How many of us are going to have an engine from overhaul through TBO where we can verify the claims of this additive? David 1
PTK Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 This, Mr. Kollin, is about you putting words in the mouth of Continental Motors. Also this is about your reputation, credibility and business practices and it doesn't say much about them, sadly. You have made an incredulous blanket claim about CM voiding warranties and have no literature to back it up. Nothing! The best you can do is claim that someone told you to freely discuss it and yet you don't even have a name.
carusoam Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 Where is the challenge? Does it work or doesn't it? If it works, there is data to support it. You: Supply the data. We: Buy the product. If it only works in some cases, define the cases... I've watched the presentation, live. I've watched the Lycoming engine's camshaft come under fire for setting too long... This whole conversation is missing the smoothness of a marketing ploy, and makes Peter look incredibly sensible. If we assume it works, We want to know why. The explanation should include as technical of a detail as required to explain it to a dentist, pilot, CFI, mechanic, OR engineer. If it only make sense to one of us, he can then explain it to the rest. I'm really looking forward to this commercial solution to the long standing problem. I usually get lost shortly after the statement where oil soaks into the metal. I want to believe, just unable... -a- 1
Cruiser Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 . KSMooniac, on 24 Mar 2014 - 1:09 PM, said:I take it to mean that CMI studied the product and it's impact on reducing wear and corrosion, and hence reduction in potential warranty expenses on their products, and made the decision to go forward with this arrangement. Cruiser, on 24 Mar 2014 - 3:36 PM, said: I am not so quick to jump to that conclusion. There maybe many other reasons this deal was made. I will believe the data when I see it released from Continental. Again I am curios, what other reasons do you envision. Ed CMI only warranties defects in material and workmanship and specifically excludes corrosion from their coverage. You tell me? 1
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