Camguard / Air Oil Sep Theory

[dfgreene61]

I have a theory that will probably be shot down by the 1st reply but here it goes....

 

It seems to me that Camguard is valuable because it seems to increase the viscosity of oil when it cools helping the oil to stay in contact with the engine for an extended period of time.  By doing so, it helps to protect the engine from corrosion when not used.

 

NOTE: Viscocity may be the wrong technical term but it definately keeps oil from running off metal parts as it normally would.

 

The M20 Air Oil Separator's job is to trap oil in the engine vapor and return it to the crankcase.  I'm pretty sure the M20 has an ambient temp that is much lower than the engine when running.  My theory is that Camguard will keep the M20 from functioning correctly, especially if the install was not 100% perfect in the 1st place.  The oil is not able to return to the crankcase fast enough to offset the incoming vapor.  So you wind up with a greasy belly regardless.

 

Any substance here?

 

 

 

 

[orionflt]

the air oil separators use the centrifugal flow of air thru the separator to sling the heavier oil against the walls of the separator where it drains back to the crank case while the rest of the vapor is dumped overboard. so basically in theory if there was enough oil in the vapor it could happen, but it would be happening anyway... also if the air oil separator is not properly installed it will be ineffective.

 

brian

[Super Dave]

I don't know the first thing about air oil separators, but I happened to listen to Mike Busch's webinar on oil consumption last night. He claims the M20 flat out does not work even if it is installed correctly.

[aaronk25]

Even the large air wolf is only about 96% efficient which there is still a very small amount of oil on the belly mainly around the cowl flap where it discharges to atmosphere.

[orionflt]

I personally agree with mike busch, they are not worth the time or expense, find the level your plane likes, service to that level and you will have little to no oil on the belly unless it is leaking from somewhere else.

 

Brian

[aaronk25]

I should add I've run camguard continually and the air wolf seperator does a great job but what I meant before is there is about 96% less oil on the bottom of the plane which is great, but considering the separator costs $450 it's about $900 bucks total once installed. I like it but that darn near $1,000 investment will return ZERO at time of sale and a person with a can of wd40 or implement green can get the bottom pretty clean in 30mins.

Seems to work fine with camguard.

Maybe someday the 2 big manufactures will re-burn what comes out of the crankcase vent like my lawn mower does .

[marks]

When I bought my J in 2005 I had an M20 oil/air separator installed and it was easy to see that the crank case breather hose had less than 20% as much oil stain coming out of the hose.  Maybe it's only helping out on take off, I'm not sure, but I'm glad I have it.  The hose is on the left side at the front of the belly so there's no one that could convince me otherwise - you can see it!  I consider Camguard an additive and I've been using that too for the past year but I haven't seen any difference.  I think Mike Busch is generally very engine-smart and maybe because of the installation of his much more powerful engines the air/oil separator doesn't make such an easily observable change.  I think his stance on Camguard was very skeptical at first, but now he uses it.  I wonder what changed his mind?

[Marauder]

I wonder what changed his mind?

Paid endorsement?

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[jetdriven]

He tried it for a year on one engine of his 310 while the other was the control. Sure enough, if the plane sat more than a few days, the wear metals were higher. Especially after a two week annual.

I don't know why so many people bash Mike Busch. I've met the man and the only thing he is selling is his Savvy maintenance program. And it's not a hard sell. He told people in the group exactly what he does it's not voodoo. For the 700$ it costs I'm sure he gets that much in savings for you.

[DonMuncy]

All my dealings with Mike Busch indicate he is an upstanding guy. Although I disagree with him about air/oil separators, I believe 99% of the other things he espouses.

[philiplane]

In some cases air oil separators are just as Mike describes, "like putting a hose from your butt to your mouth." Those are the cases where temperatures are low enough that you are returning oil, water, and acids back to the case. Warm engine compartments don't do this, and those are typically found only with turbocharged engines.

 

Four cylinder Lycomings probably suffer more harm from separators because they run too cool. And if you have a separator, only the Airwolf is worth anything. The M-20 is virtually useless IMHO. 

 

FWIW, I have managed fleets flying over 10,000 hours annually with both types of separators, and maintained dozens of customer planes of all types in addition to the fleet work.

[aaronk25]

In some cases air oil separators are just as Mike describes, "like putting a hose from your butt to your mouth." Those are the cases where temperatures are low enough that you are returning oil, water, and acids back to the case. Warm engine compartments don't do this, and those are typically found only with turbocharged engines.

Four cylinder Lycomings probably suffer more harm from separators because they run too cool. And if you have a separator, only the Airwolf is worth anything. The M-20 is virtually useless IMHO.

FWIW, I have managed fleets flying over 10,000 hours annually with both types of separators, and maintained dozens of customer planes of all types in addition to the fleet work.

What are you smoking???? I'd like to see the data you have to back those statements up...I have several pre-air wolf oil separator oil analysis as well several post separator oil analysis and the difference is ZERO. Zero moisture and no other measurable differences.

I know it's really cute to talk about hooking a hose up from your mouth to your butt, butt (no pun intended) that's just what it is, a cute slogan.

I will say that a grand is a hefty amount to pay for a installed separator given that noncorrosive aircraft degreasers are inexpensive and cleaning is pretty quick but the talk about engine cowling ambient temperature affecting the rate of moisture condensation is a bit out of left field......