teethdoc Posted January 17, 2014 Report Posted January 17, 2014 I'm flying a 1978 J model that has the original engine at TBO and now it needs it. I'm looking at new or reman. instead of field overhaul. What's your thought on reman or new?
John Pleisse Posted January 17, 2014 Report Posted January 17, 2014 The best way to go for a Lyc. Mattituck/Penn Yan are good too.
Jeev Posted January 17, 2014 Report Posted January 17, 2014 In April 2013 I put a factory overhauled from Lycoming with roller tappets and two separate mags in my 78J. I have 200 hrs on it and I'm happy. The price was comparable to an overhaul from one of the major shops and I didn't have to wait, just did an exchange. I sent in a second run (would have been 3rd run on return) engine with 4400 total time and got a second run with 2200 total time.
OR75 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Posted January 17, 2014 The first question you may want to ask yourself (unless you already have a non-D) is: IO-360-A3B6 or IO-360-A3B6D ? Plenty of chatter on Mooneyspace about D vs. non-D. And what parts / brackets you need to go from one to the other.
Cruiser Posted January 17, 2014 Report Posted January 17, 2014 I don't believe the new engine will retain any of the extra cost of purchase in resale value. The FREM will include roller tappets, that is the only way the engine comes from the factory now. I am not certain of the current inventory but many of the "FREM" included new case and cam because of the roller tappet requirements. Of course the FREM will be "0" time engine. You cannot get this with a overhaul. Looking forward, if the roller tappet system proves to be successful in limiting the cam/lifter spalling issues, it will be a plus for resale sometime in the future, I don't see a downside except for one........ if you have to open the engine for any reason, the roller tappets must be replaced and that is BIG $$$$. So, to recap, right now I believe the FREM is the best value available for current engine overhaul options.
KSMooniac Posted January 17, 2014 Report Posted January 17, 2014 New will likely just cost a lot more over the factory reman and not give you anything appreciably better. I'm removing my engine this weekend to begin a field overhaul with my mechanic and me controlling all of the part choices, dynamic balancing of internals, flow-matching of cylinders, oil flow to the valves (due to tolerances) etc., none of which you can get from the factory. The major downside is the downtime, but it also saves a lot of money. 1
carusoam Posted January 17, 2014 Report Posted January 17, 2014 I went factory reman on the IO550. 0 time is a nice feature... Best regards, -a-
MooneyMitch Posted January 18, 2014 Report Posted January 18, 2014 Mike Bush article on factory reman. vs. field overhaul Lie #10: A factory reman is better than a field overhaul, because only the factory offers a true "zero-timed" engine. While it's true that a factory rebuilt engine comes with a zero-time logbook while a field overhauled engine does not, it's not for the reason you may think. When you have your engine overhauled by Mattituck, RAM, T.W. Smith, Victor, or whomever, that engine retains most of its original parts, as well as its serial number, data plate, and engine logbook or other maintenance records. The overhauled engine you get back is legally the same engine you sent in, all cleaned up with lots of new parts. On the other hand, when TCM or Lycoming receives a runout core from a customer, that engine loses its identity. The data plate is removed and destroyed. So are the logbooks. The case halves are cleaned up, inspected, and added to a big pile of reusable case halves. The crankshaft is cleaned up, inspected, and added to a big stack of reusable cranks. The same is true of camshafts, rods, accessory gears, and so forth. Those reusable parts become "anonymous" because they're no longer associated with any particular engine serial number. Now, when TCM or Lycoming builds up a factory rebuilt engine (colloquially but incorrectly referred to as a "factory reman"), it pulls some "anonymous" case halves from one pile, an "anonymous" crankshaft from another pile, and so forth. When the engine is completely assembled, it gets a new data plate, a new serial number, and a new logbook. The logbook starts out at zero time-in-service. Why zero? Because there's no other reasonable figure to put in the logbook. The case halves are certainly not zero-time, but there's no record of how much time they've accrued. The crankshaft may not be new, but there's no record of how much time is on the crank, either. And so on. In short, the "zero-time" logbook that comes with a factory rebuilt engine in no way implies that the engine is "newer" or "better" than a field overhaul. All it implies is that the reused components in the engine are of unknown heritage...nobody knows how long they were in service prior to the time then were cleaned up, inspected, and reused in your engine! 5
carusoam Posted January 18, 2014 Report Posted January 18, 2014 Hopefully, the factory can do this as well as anyone else... Less risk for the less involved owner... Best regards, -a-
garytex Posted January 18, 2014 Report Posted January 18, 2014 If you do a factory reman, or even the factory overhaul do you get to retain your 25° BTDC timing? I understand in many cases you do not. It makes such a huge efficiency difference that I absolutely would not ever do anything that would cause me to lose it.
Skybrd Posted January 18, 2014 Report Posted January 18, 2014 I had the same decision recently and went for a factory remanufactured engine thru Texas Airpower. I wouldn't have done this if they didn't give me resonable exchange refund. I like the idea of not having the plane out of service for a lengthy time. Lycoming build up the engine after Texas Airpower contacted them. They notified me and the shop doing the exchange in advance so the change time could be limited. Presently, I have about 105 hours on the engine and so far it runs good. One of my thoughs about field overhaul is, it possible that something could be missed or overlooked. Lycoming factory knows more about their engines that others and hopefully will provide the expertise. Another good place to get a engine rebuilt but might take some time is Lycon in Visalia, Ca. Their airplane engine specialist and also have a dyno machine to check the finished engine. My son's E model has one of their engines and it sure performs.
Guest Posted January 18, 2014 Report Posted January 18, 2014 If your engine is the original I would pick a shop with the best reputation and have your overhauled. You then know that all the parts are yours. Just review the number of AD's and S/B's (566 and 569) and the general screwing Lycoming has given the flying community. I've had to do crankshaft replacements in 2 Mooney engines with no assistance form the Factory. I would not buy from them if I could avoid it. Clarence
teethdoc Posted January 20, 2014 Author Report Posted January 20, 2014 The first question you may want to ask yourself (unless you already have a non-D) is: IO-360-A3B6 or IO-360-A3B6D ? Plenty of chatter on Mooneyspace about D vs. non-D. And what parts / brackets you need to go from one to the other. I have the D and the shop it's at now recommends the non-D because he said parts are easier to come by in his opinion. So, if we rule out new and look at factory reman or Pen Yan reman of my engine which has 2000 TT. Give me your opinions. I was hoping to learn a little more about owning and maintaining an airplane before I got to make this decision. Maybe I should just go ahead and upgrade to a Missile
carusoam Posted January 20, 2014 Report Posted January 20, 2014 Go IO550! TN or not to TN...that's the mission. Best regards, -a-
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