What has AOPA accomplished

[fantom]

MAPA discount with Falcon???????

 

I'm not renewing my AOPA membership until the dent comes down from Mt. Sinai with THE answer

[Shadrach]

If a Citation helps them utilize their time better, so be it. It's a big country and not everyone can spend 10 hours straight in a Mooney, like stinky cargo pants.

 

Whining about them having a little jet is kind of shortsighted IMHO

 

Please, AOPA headquarters is 1h drive from downtown DC they are 10 minutes from a MARC station the will deliver them to Union Station on Capital Hill.  This is a non-prof organization centrally located to the geographic area where it needs to do business, not an international corporation with production facilities stretched across North America. If the N number was not blocked, I'd bet you dollars to donuts that you'd see an inordinate number of stops in destinations in the vicinity of summit county and West Palm Beach over the last decade. Sure there are big donors that need to be courted, but the focus has shifted to courting big giving units to increase the endowment. I think that's important, but I don't think that the top execs of the organization need to live like captains of industry.  I'm not a class warrior, I just think that transparency is lacking and salaries appear on the high end. I see little in the way of reaching out to new non members and a lot of focus on sucking as many giving units as possible from dwindling membership...  Phil at least (in the beginning) pretended to be a 172 driver, even if it was just for show. Business Aviation has a lobby group.

 

I thought the big 3 Auto makers showing up in DC via jet was much ado about nothing... Those guys might need to go from Michigan to Kentucky to Indiana all in the same day, who cares is they fly to DC.  I cannot conceive of an  Executive of AOPA needing to maintain a schedule like that, they have one facility maybe 2 if you consider the odd union between them and Seattle Avionics.

 

It's a perception thing Anthony. It's a none profit spending other people's money much in the same way the jack asses (I'm talking about all of them, not just the party of the Jack ass) in DC live like the oligarchs they've become. "Best use" is not on the radar, we'll just get more (whether it's printing it or deficit spending in the case of gov't or soliciting large right offs from wealthy individuals in the case of AOPA).  Aviation businesses are not doing great, a large portion of the flying public has been forced to cut back and all the while these guys are paying themselves large sums with membership money while buzzing around the country soliciting large donations  of other peoples money from a shrinking but albeit relatively well to do membership.   I'm the CFO of a small company and we could afford to occasionally charter a turbine but we don't, because I know it's not a good value for us. We just don't have a travel schedule that is that full or that tight. Would it be a luxurious perk for our staff that travel? Sure it would, but it's not my job to supply them with luxury, it's my job to make sure that I preserve as much of the top line as I can to facilitate a healthy bottom line because the future is uncertain.  AOPA certainly does not have a tax incentive to "burn" profits. 

 

On several occasions, I've seen the AOPA Citation on approach into FDK on a weekend. It has never occurred to me to think "Man, those AOPA Execs sure are workaholics working on weekends to defend GA"...but maybe it should. Maybe, I'm all wet and these guys are tireless political warriors, begrudgingly getting type rated for single pilot ops in a jet so they can serve the needs of membership that much more efficiently. Maybe, but my gut tells me that I'll not be reaching for a towel anytime soon...  

[John Pleisse]

I agree with Ross on his entire dissertation. I would add, they could handle much of their Mississippi-east business with cheaper props and at the very least, they could leaseback N4GA (their jet) and show some income on it. They seem to be income driven, why not.

 

Also, for insurance, AOPA's rates aren't even competitive. They underwrite themselves...they can't even compete. Falcon shops 6-10 carriers. They don't even belong in the same conversation. Falcon, hands down.

[John Pleisse]

 

 

I thought the big 3 Auto makers showing up in DC via jet was much ado about nothing... Those guys might need to go from Michigan to Kentucky to Indiana all in the same day, who cares is they fly to DC. 

 

Barney Frank and his Merry Band of Idiots succeeded in single handedly shutting down all of Wichita and putting jet production on ice for years, while Jay Z and George Clooney flew their jets for White House visits. C'mon.... GM Executives driving down the PA Turnpike in Chevy Cavaliers?

[jetdriven]

I missed the part where Jay Z or George Clooney were asking for 25 billion dollars of the taxpayer's money.

[Jeff_S]

Again, I can't believe the fuss over AOPA using a Cessna Citation to conduct business. There's a little thing called "walking the talk" and if the primary GA users and lobbying association can't do this without getting critiqued by its members then there's something seriously wrong. Incidentally, wherever did anyone get the notion that the jet is used to fly from HQ into DC? Has anyone actually witnessed this? I just checked out the last three months' flights on Flight Aware and it seems to me that plane is getting used on all the right trips to Wichita, Orlando, Atlanta, and other places that the execs need to get to.  This stuff is easily seen online...how about some fact checking before the diatribe?

[Cabanaboy]

AOPA

2012

PHILANTHROPY

REPORT

 

http://www.aopa.org/foundation/publications/2013philanthropy-report.pdf

[fantom]

Anyone in dire need of an AOPA cap, let me know and drop by KHWO. A free, and most likely clean, one awaits.

[John Pleisse]

I missed the part where Jay Z or George Clooney were asking for 25 billion dollars of the taxpayer's money.

 

But then again, George and Jay Z didn't work for the Teamsters Union and weren't valuable rust belt, swing state votes and never mind the moral imperative and the damage caused to the entire aviation industry........of course not......... Barney Frank waving his finger about private jets........ .....

 

So, in affect, it was a 25 billion dollar election buy out. GM could have filed bankruptcy...Ford (non union) didn't take a dime......Hmmmmmmmm.... How many factory workers in Wichita sat out of work for 3 years?

[Shadrach]

Again, I can't believe the fuss over AOPA using a Cessna Citation to conduct business. There's a little thing called "walking the talk" and if the primary GA users and lobbying association can't do this without getting critiqued by its members then there's something seriously wrong. Incidentally, wherever did anyone get the notion that the jet is used to fly from HQ into DC? Has anyone actually witnessed this? I just checked out the last three months' flights on Flight Aware and it seems to me that plane is getting used on all the right trips to Wichita, Orlando, Atlanta, and other places that the execs need to get to. This stuff is easily seen online...how about some fact checking before the diatribe?

I did not get the idea that they were flying from FDK to DC nor did I imply such a thing. I have the idea that they fly it single pilot around the country... As far as the last 3 months, BFD...membership started to get vocal about transparency years ago and the blocked N# was a frequent topic of conversation . Fact checking? You look at 3 months of flights in the same time frame that the CEO has stepped down and use that as a measurement for the direction that leadership has taken the organization in the last decade? The N number was blocked for years. I live in the same town and often operate out of the same field... Certainly your 3 months of Flight Aware research and the 3 lines of expenses on their philanthropy report trumps whatever I've seen and heard. Operating a pressurized turbine might be "walking the walk" but it is not "a little thing" and I think that at least part of 7% of membership that failed to renew between 2010 and 2012 may agree with me... If there is a need for jet then fine, use it and showcase it...but be transparent about it. The organization could easily "walk the walk" with any number of aircraft and does... In the past, the N number for the CJ was blocked ( I explicitly stated in my original post that I was not sure if it still was). Aviation in General is a pretty small community and when a high profile GA non prof owns and maintains aircraft locally, there are a lot of folks involved in the process. Many of those folks share info without necessarily knowing that it could be bad PR for the organization. When you couple that with a blocked N number and marginal transparency you get perception problems.

Maybe everything they've done over the past decade has been on the up and up, but things started to smell fishy to me about 5 years ago. I have never once stated that I "knew" there was something that could be construed as inappropriate going on and even if I were to have such info, I'd likely not share it. What I have stated from the get go is that from what I have seen and heard that my perception is that focus has drifted from grass roots organizing to courting large donors and meeting with politicians. The latter is certainly a huge part of what they need to do to accomplish anything in DC, however if membership tanks by 7% in 2 years what does that say about the health of the organization, the interests of the membership and the pulse of GA. Perhaps the paradigm is shifting to a model that is less about grass roots organizing and more towards a membership of say 250,000 well healed operators that need an organization to help funnel money into Washington... GA is already seen as a rich man's game and by national standards it probably is. But is it healthy to cultivate that perception within our ranks or with the "class warriors" on capital hill?

[Jeff_S]

Okay, perhaps I misunderstood the intent of this sentence: "Please, AOPA headquarters is 1h drive from downtown DC they are 10 minutes from a MARC station the will deliver them to Union Station on Capital Hill."  I understand your point now is that they don't need a private jet to get to DC since they are practically there already. Can't argue with that.

 

As to the 3 months of flights on Flight Aware, that's how much I could get easily and without paying for it. But even in those three months, it did seem like the jet was getting used to go to destinations that made sense from an aviation standpoint, especially Wichita and Osh.  Of course, their scheduled trip to Key West this morning was a question mark!

 

As to 7% of membership not renewing over the last three years, it's questionable how much of that is due to dissatisfaction with the organization vs. the declining population of pilots in general. I pulled the chart below directly off the FAA website, showing the decline in Airmen certificates from 2010 to 2012.  Looking at just the Private and Commercial categories, as those are the ones most likely to be predominantly GA pilots, the decline in Airmen is almost exactly 7%.  So those two things have to be related. AOPA has certainly been promoting "growing the base of pilots" as one of their key drivers ever since I've been involved (admittedly just 8 years now) so we shall see if the new approach to grass roots efforts does a better job.  I sure hope so. Of course, we are finally coming out of the worst economic environment in two generations, so perhaps that rising tide will lift all boats (or should I say, that thermal will lift all aircraft?).

 

Interesting to note also in the chart is that the number of Student Pilots remains constant every year.  People are poking their head in the door...the challenge is keeping them.

 

 

[PTK]

I'm a proud member of AOPA and will continue to be.

Because I'm too busy enjoying what they tend to on my behalf i.e. flying, I can't be in DC looking over the shoulders of and rubbing elbows with lawmakers. They represent me taking care of business and do a far better job than I ever could.

I'm proud of my AOPA and I trust in their better judgement. I want them traveling first class in the Citation.

I certainly don't want them driving around in rental cars running from meeting to meeting!

United we stand, divided we fall!

If anyone is complaining about this ask yourselves when was the last time you as an individual did anything for our General Aviation.

[DaV8or]

Why do people think that the only business AOPA conducts, is in Washington DC? Can you not see that potentially, representatives of AOPA might have to fly to all 50 states and beyond? Having said that, if they flew in coach like most of us, how many Cessna 150s could they afford to operate around the country give free plane rides to wanna be pilots?

 

Like others have already said, much of what AOPA does is not new legislation, or visible government action, it's more of what you don't see. Many of those prevention acts have already been covered, but here are a few more that have been missed-

 

How would you guys all like to be required to be ADS-B compliant right now. AOPA got the Feds to put that off until 2020.

 

How would you all like for every airplane, including those without electrical systems to be required to have not Mode A, not Mode C, but Mode S transponders right now. AOPA has thwarted those efforts.

 

How would you guys like to all be burning 94UL instead of 100LL right now. If this were so, many of us would no longer have Mooneys. AOPA has delayed what the Feds would have loved to do a decade ago.

 

How many of us are flying in Mooneys today with a Special Issuance Medical? In the old days, if you got Diabetes, you were done flying. AOPA got Oklahoma City to agree to open the door to many, many pilots.

 

How many of you enjoy the right to land your plane at any of the government funded, public airports in the country? Without AOPA, our potential places to land would be far less than it is. If an air carrier goes there, likely we would not.

 

Anyhow, there are more examples, but IMO, AOPA is well worth the price of admission. There really is no other pilot advocacy group that compares and without advocacy, flying here would look much more like Europe, or worse Japan.

[Hank]

Dave--

What's the state of GA flying in Japan? I've not lived there since moving from RC to full scale flying.

[DaV8or]

Dave--

What's the state of GA flying in Japan? I've not lived there since moving from RC to full scale flying.

 

The general populous is allowed to fly, but only ultra light and LSA type aircraft from grass strips in the country side. They are not allowed to fly over populated areas and they are not allowed to go cross country. Landing at paved, civilian airports is the same as military airports... you can't. You can fill out a ream of paper, pay a bunch of money and make a request to go cross country and land at a civilian airport. You will need a Japanese IR as there is no VFR cross country allowed. Even guest planes and pilots, like those transiting on a ferry flight, or an around the world adventure have to conform to these rules, so most avoid going to Japan altogether.

 

On the bright side, it's better than their gun laws!   In full disclosure, there may be some inaccuracies in what I have written as I have no personal experience with life in Japan. My knowledge here is from an article written about the state of GA in Japan by the president of JAOPA, the Japanese branch of the AOPA. If I made mistakes from my memory, anyone with real experience feel free to correct me, but I believe this is basically the truth.

[Bennett]

Last straw. According to Propwash's newsletter, AOPA chose to schedule one of their new regional meetings on Yom Kippur. They knew the date was in conflict, and went ahead anyway. How would most folk like it if AOPA chose Christmas Day or Easter Sunday for a regional meeting, in spite of protests. To me it is a disrespect and I no longer care to be associated with such an organization ( after over 30 + years of membership, and support of their air safety foundation).

[Sabremech]

Thanks everyone for your responses. They all are good and relevant. What I've learned by the 3rd page is that AOPA has a communication and reality problem. They are out of touch with their members. Am I wrong in this observation from this thread?

Thanks again,

David

[Jeff_S]

Thanks everyone for your responses. They all are good and relevant. What I've learned by the 3rd page is that AOPA has a communication and reality problem. They are out of touch with their members. Am I wrong in this observation from this thread?

Thanks again,

David

 

Yes, I would say you are hyperbolizing a bit. Apparently SOME people hold that opinion about AOPA and they are not shy about voicing their opinion. Others feel strongly positive about the association and they also are not afraid to voice that opinion. Then there is the silent middle, but the fact that AOPA membership hasn't dropped any more than the general pilot population would be at least one indicator that they are general positive about the association.

[Sabremech]

Hi Jeff,

In relation to my thread topic, legislative advocacy, I'd say I'm pretty close to having it right. If this is their most important function, then why is so little about the successes and failures known? Two people posted good information on the legislative affairs, the rest was good general information both positive and negative for AOPA.

I'm satisfied with the information that was posted.

Thank you for the posts.

David

[Hank]

Interesting article by the new Pres in this month's Pilot, here:

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2014/January/Pilot/Presidents-Position-Working-together.aspx

It's not secret, but much of it I was not aware of until just now.

[scottfromiowa]

Quitters...

[scottfromiowa]

Talkers...

[scottfromiowa]

Doers...

[scottfromiowa]

Supporters...

[scottfromiowa]

Which are U?