Camguard Use

[Seth]

I'm trying to determine when to start using Camguard.  I have been told not to use Camguard until my rings have fully seated, but really, wait longer.  So . . . Please answer the poll and reply as well with specifics.

 

Thanks, 

 

-Seth

[aaronk25]

I had a cylinder overhauled and new rings installed and when I asked Ed Collins from camguard when to dump the mineral oil and start using camguard this is what he said:

Dump the oil was referring to mineral oil.......So combined I guess 10 hours?  This wasn't a new cylinder so maybe it was a shorter duration, but he was well aware it had new rings installed. I'll PM him to see if he can answer your question more directly, as I'm not sure Ed monitors the forum continuously.  

 

"Hi Aaron

I would dump the oil at 5 hours. Go to Phillips 20W-50 and at the 5 hour mark add Camguard.

If you have any questions call me.

 

Regards,

Ed"

[1TJ]

I'm trying to determine when to start using Camguard.  I have been told not to use Camguard until my rings have fully seated, but really, wait longer.  So . . . Please answer the poll and reply as well with specifics.

 

Thanks, 

 

-Seth

 

I recommend new engines and topped engines (any number of cylinders) be broken in on Phillips 20W-50 AD (blue bottle) changing at 5 and again at15-20 hours WITHOUT Camguard. Start on Camguard after the second oil change at about 25 hours. If your engine builder requires a non-dispersant oil for warranty, I recommend the non-dispersant (non-AD) Phillips 20W-50 oil in the black bottle.

 

The reason for the seemingly quick change on the engines (especially topped) is that, at Aircraft Specialties Services, we have noticed an increased cam and lifter failure rate (in under 100 hours) on engines running mineral oil for long initial oil change intervals. In analyzing break-in oils, I have noticed, to no surprise, a high level of hydroperoxides (combustion by-products). These are VERY reactive and pro-wear. And the cams/lifters in used engines receiving cylinders are much more prone to accelerated wear than those in a new engine.

 

Ed

[KSMooniac]

Ed, this is a thread hijack but since you've been looking at all of these components and oil analysis results, do you have any opinions of which new parts available today for Lycomings provide the best chance of a long, happy life?  I'm about to start my overhaul after Thanksgiving and will likely source a new cam and lifters, and I wonder about the materials, heat treatments or other post-processing steps, for the cam and lifters at a minimum.  I know that Lycoming has recently switches to a "hyperbolic" lifter and I wonder why they did it, and if it offers any advantages over the straight barrel.

 

I'd also love to hear your opinion on the possible merits of the Ney Nozzle or Centrilube mods to address Lycoming cam lubrication in conjunction with an Oilamatic preoiler rig.  To me, it seems like combining one of the cam lubrication mods with the preoiler would go a long way towards reducing the distress on Lycoming cams and lifters.

 

I've got a case of Camguard that I'm ready to start using again, but I'll be down for a couple of months...

Thanks in advance!

[201er]

I think I ran mineral oil for the first 20 hours but held off on camguard until after 50. But I flew the heck out of it cause I wanted to get the break in over with and because I was worried not having any rust protection. So those 50 hours went pretty quick.

 

Let's get the dentist in here so we can ask him how long after the engine breaks he will start using camguard

[Danb]

I have been using a blend for 15 yrs or so with no problems, does anyone know if I would be better off using cam guard?

[Danb]

That's supposed to be avblend gotta love spell check to ruin a comment

[PTK]

I think I ran mineral oil for the first 20 hours...cause I wanted to get the break in over with...

 

Let's get the dentist in here...

 

                          

 

Mike, the Dentist is very busy this time of year.

 

For no apparent reason, too many procrastinating turkeys wait till the last minute!

 

Speaking of procrastinating turkeys Mike...I mean...20 hours to break in the engine?! 

 

                         

                                                              

[Shadrach]

That's supposed to be avblend gotta love spell check to ruin a comment

Why not just edit the post? 

[Danb]

Ross, I'm not that smart. Have a great holiday..Dan

[Shadrach]

I have been using a blend for 15 yrs or so with no problems, does anyone know if I would be better off using cam guard?

As I and others have mentioned, Avblend is composed of >99% mineral oil (ref MSDS) so we have <1% available for "active ingredient", especially considering that the blue dye to make it look cool is also contained in that <1%. So using round numbers, let’s say 1% "active ingredient". That works out .12 oz of "active ingredient" per 12oz can. One 12oz can is what is recommended for use in 4 to 8 qt systems (such an imprecise measurement guideline should be a red flag in and of itself). Now let's say you fill your engine with 7 qts at oil change; that's 224oz of oil into which you are adding .12 oz of "active ingredient". That works out to a ratio of .05367% active ingredient in the oil. Let's not forget that my calculations are generous and rounded up to 1% "active ingredient" per can. I am highly skeptical that Avblend does anything at all other than displace what would be your normal motor oil with a very expensive blue mineral oil.

[Shadrach]

Ross, I'm not that smart. Have a great holiday..Dan

 

I don't believe that to be the case.    You have a great holiday too!  

 

 

Edit: If you look at my posts, you'll see I'm a compulsive editor... it usually takes about 3 tries for me to correct my own spelling and grammatical errors... I really need to install a spell check plug-in on this browser...

Case in point: two edits to get "grammatical" spelled correctly....

[Seth]

I don't believe that to be the case.    You have a great holiday too!  

 

 

Edit: If you look at my posts, you'll see I'm a compulsive editor... it usually takes about 3 tries for me to correct my own spelling and grammatical errors... I really need to install a spell check plug-in on this browser...

 

 

Case in point: two edits to get "grammatical" spelled correctly....

+1  Ross, I ALWAYS find a typos or seven and end up editing my posts.

 

-Seth

[Oscar Avalle]

I use AVBLEND.

[fantom]

...the Dentist is very busy this time of year.

 

For no apparent reason, too many procrastinating turkeys wait till the last minute!

 

DUH...it's called annual insurance allowance. You really need to go into the office more than eight hours a week.

 

[Jamie]

As I and others have mentioned, Avblend is composed of >99% mineral oil (ref MSDS) so we have <1% available for "active ingredient", especially considering that the blue dye to make it look cool is also contained in that <1%. So using round numbers, let’s say 1% "active ingredient". That works out .12 oz of "active ingredient" per 12oz can. One 12oz can is what is recommended for use in 4 to 8 qt systems (such an imprecise measurement guideline should be a red flag in and of itself). Now let's say you fill your engine with 7 qts at oil change; that's 224oz of oil into which you are adding .12 oz of "active ingredient". That works out to a ratio of .05367% active ingredient in the oil. Let's not forget that my calculations are generous and rounded up to 1% "active ingredient per can. I am highly skeptical that Avblend does anything at all other than displace what would be your normal motor oil with a very expensive blue mineral oil.

 

but... but... it has "reformulated micro-molecules that penetrate, clean and protect metal from the inside out". (FAQ)

[N9660M]

Seth, think when I had my engine overhauled, Tom there at Freeway said to run straight mineral oil for 50 hours.  After that I switched to Camgaurd and Phillips X/C.  Fly safe - Jim  

[kmyfm20s]

How about Marvel Mystery Oil? I don't use it but it has some serious believers! Does anyone know the mystery ingredient? Having done a lot of research in the dental materials area I can empathize with the less than 1% active ingredient can't hurt but doesn't really help product.

BTW for you that have flexible spending accounts or dental plans that expire annually you should have an Orthodontic or Dental exam before the end of the year to plan for 2014 or use your remaining benefits for 2013:) Just thrownin one out there for us Mooney tooth pro's on the forum!

[Bob - S50]

How about Marvel Mystery Oil? I don't use it but it has some serious believers! Does anyone know the mystery ingredient? Having done a lot of research in the dental materials area I can empathize with the less than 1% active ingredient can't hurt but doesn't really help product.

BTW for you that have flexible spending accounts or dental plans that expire annually you should have an Orthodontic or Dental exam before the end of the year to plan for 2014 or use your remaining benefits for 2013:) Just thrownin one out there for us Mooney tooth pro's on the forum!

On the Savvy Mx website there is a resource tab.  One of the items is articles written by Mike Busch.  One of those articles is on oil and in that article he says that the maker (Turtle Wax) now has to reveal the ingredients.  The ones he mentions are a base of petroleum distillate solvent, pig fat, perfume, and red food coloring.

 

Bob

[Lood]

I use Avblend.

[fantom]

I use Avblend.

For what?

[Lood]

For what?

 

To pour into my coffee in the morning! Why, what were you thinking...

 

On a serious note though, I accept all the good spoken about Camguard, but unfortunately it is not available here in South Africa and to import it, with our poor ZAR/US$ exchange rate, is not viable.

That said, my AME have been using Avblend for the past 10 years, or so, on all the airplanes that they maintain. According to them, sticky valves have never again occurred on any of the engines that have Avblend added.

[fantom]

To pour into my coffee in the morning! Why, what were you thinking...

 

 

 

Things go better with Coke Avblend.....at least it can't hurt

[Seth]

Looking at the poll, though a small sample size, half of the MooneySpacers use Camguard.

 

-Seth

[carusoam]

And the other half are waiting for more data...

And less funky advertising... That is funk!

Best regards,

-a-