M20C Crosswind Landings

[LevelWing]

I searched the forums and didn't find anything specific to a C model. I was told by the previous owner that when trying to land a C model in a crosswind you can't do the normal rudder/aileron corrections since the front wheel is linked differently. I have noticed that it's different in the sense that if I try to keep the rudder in when I touch down the plane instantly wants to turn in the direction I'm applying the rudder which causes me to side load the gear a bit and skid. Any tips on how to make better crosswind landings in the C model?

[N601RX]

The nosewheel is "hard" connected with linkages, It does not use springs/rods as some planes do.

[gregwatts]

For me..........during crosswind landings, I use partial flaps..........crab until short final and then slip it in.

[triple8s]

I had a C for 5 years and it was a little squirrelly for a second during roll out. I figured it out (an old fella told me) what was causing it but I never fixed it because I traded planes. My C had a nose gear collapse back in 07 before I bought it, repairs were made and evidently the steering was ever so slightly off. What was happening was this on landing there was a split second when it was squirrelly because the rudder and nose wheel each had equal authority and they were not exactly in alignment. This can also develop due to wear of components. It can be checked by pulling your plane with tow bar on a straight line and watching to see if the rudder is perfectly straight. A tiny bit off will make a difference for a split second when rudder and nose wheel have equal authority. If all is adjusted properly Mooneys handle a cross wind just fine, just remember protect the nose.

[Shadrach]

I like slips in a cross wind. I start setting up as soon as I turn final. My plane handles wing low slips to land just fine. I am not a fan of the crab and kick method unless winds are really light.

[LevelWing]

I'm comfortable with crosswind landings in a 172 using the crab method and based on the posts here, it should be the same for the Mooney. However, as soon as the front wheel touches down the plane immediately wants to turn in the direction the rudder was pushed. I'm sure I'm missing something, because I'm not doing anything differently in the Mooney (so far) than I am in the 172.

[pinerunner]

I prefer slips too though on long final I'll start off with crab. What has surprised me is that it always needs less correction than I expect once I'm close to the ground. I've never needed to keep the slip on in the final flair and touch down one wheel first even though there have been a few times I have expected to.  I guess we sit lower and closer to the ground and get into slower air as we land. Anyway I suspect the Mooney is actually the easiest aircraft to handle in a crosswind. Am I alone in that?

 

Dave

[orionflt]

I have landed my C in cross winds with gusts up to 50 MPH (a little outside the recommended limits) with very little difficulty. I found that crabbing worked better then wing down top rudder for the approach, I use approach flaps and as I transitioned into ground effect I transitioned to wing down top rudder holding the aileron correction in thru roll out and steer with the rudder until the nose wheel touches down. As it touches down I neutralize the rudder then apply forward yoke to apply more pressure to the nose wheel for better steering control during roll out     

[BigTex]

Coming from the tail dragged world I find myself naturally doing slips on final. I have found out that passengers find slips a bit uncomfortable so I generally crab with passengers.

[Shadrach]

I have landed my C in cross winds with gusts up to 50 MPH (a little outside the recommended limits) with very little difficulty. I found that crabbing worked better then wing down top rudder for the approach, I use approach flaps and as I transitioned into ground effect I transitioned to wing down top rudder holding the aileron correction in thru roll out and steer with the rudder until the nose wheel touches down. As it touches down I neutralize the rudder then apply forward yoke to apply more pressure to the nose wheel for better steering control during roll out     

Do you have an early C with the short rudder?

[larryb]

I've had the same problem. I've learned that once the mains touch, ease off on the rudder input until the nose is down, then use brakes and rudder to keep it straight on the runway.

[Shadrach]

I prefer slips too though on long final I'll start off with crab. What has surprised me is that it always needs less correction than I expect once I'm close to the ground. I've never needed to keep the slip on in the final flair and touch down one wheel first even though there have been a few times I have expected to.  I guess we sit lower and closer to the ground and get into slower air as we land. Anyway I suspect the Mooney is actually the easiest aircraft to handle in a crosswind. Am I alone in that?

 

Dave

 

 

Nope, not alone. The wind at 500ft, 50ft and 5 ft is often different. Ground friction plays a roll in altering wind direction and speed. I too find myself needing less and less correction as I come into the flare.  The only time, I've ever had an issue with a pronounced opposite steering input was on a very high wind day (something like 26036G47KT). For S and G's, I decided to try landing 20 even though 27 was available.  It worked out, but it was not pretty. I'm glad  the Tower's view was obscured by T hangars, because it probably looked dangerous from the outside.  Gust hit hard in the flare and the required bank to keep from drifting took almost all the rudder. When the gust died, the wing paid off and I plopped on with the upwind main wheel first rapidly followed by the left main and then the nose.. ba-dunk-dunk and the nose went left fast and I over corrected to the right just as another gust hit.  The right turn and the gust caused the right main to lift off the ground.  It must have looked awful!  In hind sight, I think that I was being hit by wind coming through the perpendicular taxiways that serve the T hangers as I passed them.  I'll likely not do that again just for fun...      

[jetdriven]

Our plane used to skid and swerve all over the runway on takeoff and landing. Turns out the nose gear didnt have enough caster. There is a service bulletin which has you install a spacer in the nose gear which moves it further aft. It made a huge difference in handling on the ground.  M20-202.  

 

http://www.donmaxwell.com/publications/MAPA_TEXT/M20-202%20-%20Eight-Second%20Ride/EIGHT_SECOND_RIDE.HTM

 

parts and the nose gear compressor tool available from your friends at LASAR

[N601RX]

The shim fixed my swerving also.  Here is a post I made that shows how to install it without renting the tool and having to ship it back.

 

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/8878-make-shift-nose-puck-compressor/?hl=turnbuckle

[Shadrach]

The shim fixed my swerving also.  Here is a post I made that shows how to install it without renting the tool and having to ship it back.

 

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/8878-make-shift-nose-puck-compressor/?hl=turnbuckle

 

 

I've read the SB many times and quick and dirty measurements show that we are right on the cusp of spec. As a DIY, My mechanic and I have always been leary of doing anything that might affect gear preloads.

[N601RX]

I've read the SB many times and quick and dirty measurements show that we are right on the cusp of spec. As a DIY, My mechanic and I have always been leary of doing anything that might affect gear preloads.

The shim doesn't affect preload any.

[Shadrach]

The shim doesn't affect preload any.

 

I don't think I need the shim as my axel is just a tad forward of the plumb bob, not behind it.  What is an issue for me is that the nose gear does not go as far up into the well as I'd like on retraction. This requires the adjustment of the eccentrics on the gear operating rods, which does affect preload!

[N601RX]

The shim will also move move the wheel up in the wheel well another 3/8 inch or so and not mess up the preload in doing so.  Mine was borderline on needing the shim by the measurement and it made the plane more stable on touchdown.

[rbridges]

For me..........during crosswind landings, I use partial flaps..........crab until short final and then slip it in.

 

that's how I do it.  Seems to work pretty well, just let it float until the crosswind side main starts to touch.

[Hank]

Guess I'll make the C-drivers unanimous.

[jetdriven]

Ross, the shim makes the gear go up further in the well without adjusting eccentrics or preloads.

[Shadrach]

Ross, the shim makes the gear go up further in the well without adjusting eccentrics or preloads.

Thanks! Where did you guys purchase you're kit or did you just source a shim locally?

[N601RX]

All the info you need to manufacturer is on the drawing on the SB.

[LevelWing]

Thanks for all of the information, I'll check out the SB and see if that can help with it. Otherwise I see no reason I can't do normal, crab style, crosswind landings.

[orionflt]

Do you have an early C with the short rudder?

Yes, been thinking about replacing it with the long rudder to try to get more rudder authority.