Me too, just bought a '66E

[CDF219]

Bob Im seeing about 140KTAS on average the problem is most of my flights are at 6k and under other than the texas flight. Im heading to Disney Land and going into KISM so Im hoping to go down kinda high and log some info for more data. I am willing to spend a little but not throwing a thousand dollars at a knot, That can get expensive quick.

[Bob_Belville]

Chris, I put the PowerFlow exhaust on this plane when the muffler had to be replaced but all the speed mods were done by previous owners. Frankly, I would think your first mad money would be better spent on avionics and other nice panel toys. Check out my panel in my gallery.

 

What model Brittain A/P do you have? Getting a manual should not be a problem and  the factory, in Tulsa OK, is a great little company and would be worth talking too. (They also made the servo that retracts your step and will be able to overhaul that item when needed. The rubber boot has a useful live of about 45 years. ) 

 

Enjoy your new bird! You've picked the very best model Mooney ever built, IMNSHO.

[tomn]

Chris, I own Bob's previous 66 E! I have the 201 windshield, gap seals, cowl closure, and three blade prop. The rest is stock. I cruise at about 153 kts up in the 8 to 10K ft range. Tom

[flight2000]

I put the cowl enclosure on for better cooling. Not sure on the speed increases or decreases with it, but I'm normally in the 155-158 KTAS range at 7-9k when cruising. If you're running that slow, I'd recommend getting the rigging checked. Something isn't right as even a stock E should be closer to 150-152 knots TAS.... I've got the 201 winshield installed and like the better visibility compared to the older two piece. Great place to hang my 496 too.

I have the PC and Navigation Coupler manuals on my website. If those don't match what you have, just drop Brittan an email and they'll sent you what you need. For what it's worth, I dumped mine in favor of an STEC 30 w/GPSS and ALT hold.

http://67m20e.com/m20e_manuals.htm

Brian

[CDF219]

One thought I have is maybe im not running it properly, I like a few other Mooney owners have been looking for a Good CFI that has Mooney time to go up and make sure I am flying my machine to the envelope. I have a single probe EGT that I just replaced last month it has the Brittan B6 I believe auto pilot coupled to the 430WAAS ( I just dont know how to set it up to fly an approach or make it work at all with the 430) I do also have the Ipad mini with the Dual ADS-B and FLYQ ( I can say I like it but I dont show alot of traffic on it here is the Atlanta area which seems strange since its so busy , maybe there are not alot of GA participating in it just yet) The Dr. William Collier owned her since new.Prior to my purchase she got a fresh paint job (back to factory super 21 colors) all new leather interior headliner and carpet as well as the cool little things like the Mooney insignia imprinted in the head rest on both front seats. If you get the MAPA LOG they did a write up on her in the MAY 2013 edition. It was in such good shape even the ADF and DME all worked perfectly. I had the Rigging checked prior to purchase of course with the prebuy/anual all checked out ok. 3300 hrs TTAF and 369SMOH I am wondering now after reading here if the 3 blade is slowing me enough to cause my numbers to be so low. Compressions and everything else seem fine per inspection. I moved up from a 79 PA28 Dakota so anything over 135kts and burning less than 14gph is a win.

[Bob_Belville]

Chris, the 3 blade prop is supposed to be a little slower but not more than a knot or 2. 

 

I did not go back through all your posts but I don't recall whether you've commented on what power setting you are typically flying at. The difference between 65% power and 75% is close to 10 knots. And 100 ROP (~best power) vs. LOP might be 10 knots. Without some of the newer avionics you'll have to convert IAS to TAS (that assumes your ASI is accurate) and use your handbook to set up power. (You can get close to 65% by setting MP&RPM to total 46; 75% should total 49, e.g. 24.0 & 2500.) Your single probe EGT will allow you to dial in 100 ROP. That should result in 11 GPH @ 75% and 9.5 GPH @ 65% if you have a Fuel Flow device.

 

If you are like I have been with my plane, I usually don't care to cruise at 75% best power but I do want to know what the speed is there so I know if everything is in order. With my Aspen and JPI EDM 930 I can see TAS, power setting and fuel flow. 

[CDF219]

Hey Bob, first thank you for the info. I have been flying at 48 (24/24) and average 9.5 gal for the past 35hrs. I usually run my EGT just down to a light sputter then up 100 so I guess 100 ROP would be correct.IM THINKING NOW THAT POSSIBLY THE ASI IS A LITTLE OFF. Im not real sure how I would check that. I do know my VSI shows a 50 ft climb while straight and level.

[Bob_Belville]

Chris, 9.5 is a little low for 24/2400 for best power but depending upon the length of your flights your average might or might not be where you are in cruise since you'll be higher while climbing and a little lower in the pattern.

 

With your single probe EGT there should be a knob in the center that moves a needle. Use this needle to mark Peak EGT. slowly back out the mixture while watching the EGT rise. Move the marker needle as it rises. When the EGT peaks and further leaning lowers the EGT you've found peak (by definition "peak" is the highest EGT, moving mixture either richer or leaner results in an EGT decrease). The marker needle set at peak gives you a reference to move the mixture back in until the EGT is 4 units (100F) Rick of Peak. That's nominal "best power". Unless your injectors are really out of balance you should not detect roughness unless you get Lean of Peak so I'm guessing you might be running too lean to stay out of the "red zone". That's the hottest cylinder temperature and the hardest on your engine.

 

Someone else may want to comment on the easiest ways to double check your ASI. You can fly a box if you have a GPS and average the ground speeds you get to cancel out the wind drift. If you can do this pretty carefully I would think you would be with 5 k or less +/-. I'm not sure why the VSI would be off by a constant amount. You are saying the altimeter is steady and the VSI is showing descent? Does it show descent when the plane is sitting on the ground? If so it is obviously an installation issue. If it is only when you're flying, be sure the static ports are clear. Your '66E has 2, on the sides of the rear fuselage. In this picture my starboard static port is in the top of the big "3". The port side has one in the same position. Part of your pre-flight is to verify they are clear.

 

Bob

[CDF219]

That is great info, thank you. The VSI always shows a 50ft climb yes even when on the ground.  See this is why I have wanted someone to go fly with me that knows all this and can see whats happening and while its happening.

 

CHRIS

[Bob_Belville]

Chris, you don't need a Mooney CFI to deal with that VSI. That's an instrument that is common to all aircraft and any A&P can tell you if if is something he can adjust or if it needs overhaul. If it goes up and down when you climb and descend it might not be that critical. I don't think it is an airworthiness issue. Come to think of it, a VSI may not be on your certified list and might not be required. When I added an Aspen PFD I had to retain the ASI and Altimeter "steam gauges but I could and did eliminate the VSI. I think the logic is that with a "sensitive" altimeter and an ASI the VSI is an optional instrument.

[treebobboy]

The VSI is adjustable.  Look for a very small hole in the front and use a jewelers screwdriver to adjust.  Very easy to fix yourself.

[yvesg]

The VSI is adjustable.  Look for a very small hole in the front and use a jewelers screwdriver to adjust.  Very easy to fix yourself.

Mine needs adjustment too. Do I need to remove it from its location because there is a glass in front.

Yves

[Urs_Wildermuth]

Bob,

 

I notice your Aspen is calibrated in mph. That makes sense for the IAS, but not for the TAS or GS. Do you know, if the Aspen can be calibrated to show MPH for IAS but kt for TAS and GS?

 

Many thanks

Urs

[Bob_Belville]

Bob,

 

I notice your Aspen is calibrated in mph. That makes sense for the IAS, but not for the TAS or GS. Do you know, if the Aspen can be calibrated to show MPH for IAS but kt for TAS and GS?

 

Many thanks

Urs

I tried very hard to get the avionics shop to set the Aspen up in knots but they insisted that since the '66 E was certified in miles that Aspen was required to use miles. My (now backup) ASI actually is marked with knots as the primary scale, attached! Go figure. I would love to have the Aspen changed. 

 

Actually, I guess I did not argue for mixed units with only the ASI in miles. I'd have to think about that.

[treebobboy]

Yves,  If it is a standar VSI, the little hole is located on the front metal rim, lower left on mine.  You do not need to remove the instrument.  The adjustment is a straight slot jewelers screwdriver that just slides in the hole.

 

Mike

[rob]

The Aspen can not show IAS in one measure and TAS in another; I've asked for this three times from three shops and been met with blank stares. In the meantime, using the Aspen GS in MPH compared to my GPS GS in knots, I've become pretty good at the mental math.

Like Bob, I've also wanted my Aspen changed to Knots and have been unsuccessful in talking anyone into it.

[yvesg]

Yves,  If it is a standar VSI, the little hole is located on the front metal rim, lower left on mine.  You do not need to remove the instrument.  The adjustment is a straight slot jewelers screwdriver that just slides in the hole.

 

Mike

Here is a picture of my panel... don't see any holes...

Yves

[Marauder]

The Aspen can not show IAS in one measure and TAS in another; I've asked for this three times from three shops and been met with blank stares. In the meantime, using the Aspen GS in MPH compared to my GPS GS in knots, I've become pretty good at the mental math. Like Bob, I've also wanted my Aspen changed to Knots and have been unsuccessful in talking anyone into it.

Exactly. In my case my POH is published in both mph and knots therefore I can use either.

[Bob_Belville]

Exactly. In my case my POH is published in both mph and knots therefore I can use either.

B26, what year is your F? Was it supplied with a POH or just an Owner's Manual which is all there was for my '66E, I think. I do have a POH but I do not think it was included as original equipment.

[Marauder]

Bob -- my F is a 1975. I'm pretty sure it is a POH but will confirm it. As I mentioned, all of the units for speeds are presented in mph & knots. That was acceptable to the avionics shop and ironically the FAA as they were there and inspecting work from the shop on my plane.

[Bob_Belville]

Yeah, 1975 in knots makes sense. 1966 not so much. The Air Force pilot I bought this plane from was sure my ASI was original and the Delta captain he bought it from built an POH noting that this plane's ASI was in knots from the factory but I as very suspicious that an instrument installed in '65 was knots primary.. I wonder if there is any way to confirm?

[Urs_Wildermuth]

Ugh. Does that mean it will also display the wind in mph?

 

That IAS at the airspeed indicator is in the same unit as the POH and the main indicator is makes sense, actually the other way would be dangerous. However, TAS, GS (so why don't they insist you use mph on your GNS430 as well??) and certainly wind makes none at all! For me that would be a total show stopper to actually buying one and I am close to that decision.

 

Actually, with your ASI being in KTS primary, so should the Aspen be. Period. Everything else is dangerous.

 

Need to talk to my avionic shop about it. I wonder if they refuse the purchase if I make the condition that the unit is in kts. My airspeed indicator is both as well, but mph primary.

 

Actually, I do wonder if the Swiss FOCA would accept a converted POH ammendment with all values converted to KT in addition to mph. I've done that a long time ago for the cruise tables and could do the other few pages indicated in about 2-3 hours flat. I have a feeling, if it's done properly it might get accepted.

 

MPH should be finally eliminated from POH's as well as from airplanes. Like QFE it is something which can lead to pretty nasty errors. And after all it was only ever used to please the marketing folks to brag about higher airspeed.

[rob]

I don't really care what the winds and ground speed are displayed as. It makes zero difference, really, in the flying of the airplane. If that's a deal breaker for you in buying an Aspen, I'd have to question why you wanted the Aspen in the first place? You can always turn off those displays entirely. 

 

Bob, My ASI has the Mooney Logo on it, I'm fairly certain that it's original to my '65 M20C. It's in MPH with Knots on the inner ring.

[Bob_Belville]

Bob, My ASI has the Mooney Logo on it, I'm fairly certain that it's original to my '65 M20C. It's in MPH with Knots on the inner ring.

Yeah, I think that's what I had in my old '66E back in the 70's & 80s. This plane has had a great many mods and I suspect the ASI is one that was not documented.

[treebobboy]

Yves,     Your VSI looks just like mine, but yours is mounted differently.  Mine is mounted in a square hole, vice a round one, so the instrument sits about a quarter inch further out.  Because of that,  the little hole is obvious.  It appears to me you will have to loosen the VSI and move it a bit forward and then to the left or right to access the adjustment screw.  I will take a picture of mine tomorrow and send it to you.          Mike